I'm still finding it pretty unlikely that you had anything at all to do with it - who is it who says you do again? Some random at the council?? It might be the bollard's got a bug.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Bikes and bollards
(60 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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If there's a magnetic field trigger in the system, it would have picked up SRD's bike moving at time when bollard wasn't in safe mode, and will have started to rise again. It would then probably need to reset itself and come down again.
I'm not a security expert but I can imagine that the bollards use an integral eddy current sensor to detect the vehicle's departure. Some bicycles have enough conducting metal area to trigger such sensors that are embedded in the ground after conventional barriers. It's possible that SRD's folder has enough metal in it, although I would've thought it unlikely; the tandem perhaps more so, although it's considered more effective to use steel or copper as the medium to trigger the sensor.
Don't mess with the bollards:
Posted 11 years ago # -
That's impressive!
Posted 11 years ago # -
@arellcat, I was going to ask you if you thought the Dahon's magnets might somehow have affected it. But it occurred to me that I was also carrying my ridiculously large d-lock, which is usually left locked on at work.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@Arellcat I think the sensors quite sensitive, if they are the same sort that my works car park uses (for raising a barrier). I don't know any bikes which fail to trigger it - as long as you pass very exactly over the mark on the ground which indicates where the sensor is! Maybe SRD got 'lucky' with the sensor, or maybe the city chambers have got more sensors...
Posted 11 years ago # -
Love the video. These are in the same family as the silver stumps, mostly non-retracting, popping up at all major railway stations, even at the top of a flight of steps, with a central handrail (Euston), lest anyone tries to drive in to the station that way.
Saw this being demonstrated in Barcelona when at Velo City in 1997. Their system did have a logic interlocking sequence and large buried loops at start, over bollard, and at exit so that an occupation sequence had to be completed in the correct order before the bollard rose up. It might be that these bollards use a simpler (ie crude/cheap) detection system.
One would think that regular vehicles would use a fixed transponder on the vehicle (like the buses usually do) which has to pass over an exit point before the bollard can begin to rise. It does seem rather odd that a bike has sufficient metal in it to trigger a loop set up for cars, especially since the cars have to be identified specifically by the system to activate the bollard descending.
Posted 11 years ago # -
There's a massive market after the Glasgow Airport bombing for this sort of anti-ram protection, it's been a real happy time for the industry. Of course it's all a complete waste of money if someone up to no good decides to proceed on foot (or a bike!)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Wish some of the traffic lights were as sensitive to approaching bikes!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Or if they could install these before pedestrian crossings. That would cut down on hit and runs at pelican crossings!
Posted 11 years ago # -
No Steveo, any form of barrier across the road to protect other users on a crossing WOULD CAUSE TRAFFIC CHAOS!!!
(What I don't get with that article is that if the new barriers need to be shut for 36 minutes in 60 for the passage of trains, surely the existing closure should be the same (except I assume people are cutting it fine or even driving around the split barrier)
Posted 11 years ago # -
That Kirknewton article is bizarre, or at least the reaction to the plans is.
It would have helped to know how long in every hour the existing barriers are down. Could the journalist not be bothered finding out?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I don't understand that at all!
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Livingston Labour MP Graeme Morrice said: “Whilst the safety of pedestrians, road users and rail passengers is absolutely paramount, I am concerned that the proposal by Network Rail will cause unacceptable inconvenience to Kirknewton residents.""
Mr Morrice and I clearly have different definitions of 'absolutely paramount' if 'inconvenience' outweighs it.
Carl John... "said: “At peak time from 7 o’clock until 8 o’clock in the morning, the barrier will be shut for 36 minutes, 13 seconds. That’s about 57 per cent of the time in that hour.
“I don’t think residents will [be happy with that].”
So it's only during one hour that the barrier would be shut for that length of time, so EEN, what length of time will it be open the rest of the time?
And on the residents....
"Kirknewton development officer Tony Foster said residents were more opposed to an underpass than barriers, with requests for a pedestrian bridge over the line.
He said: “You could argue that some drivers have been using Kirknewton as a bit of a rat run to avoid the A71. The new barriers may actually improve the problem of increased traffic through the village.”"
So neither the MP, nor the Community Council, actually know what the residents think... Muppets.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hiya
Most hydraulic bollards have a control box situated within 50m of the bollard, so it says here...
http://www.dbt.fr/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/TEQCO509_-_Retractable_Access_Control_Bollards.pdf
Thought this might help with the mystery of activation.
Regards
R :-)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Classic comment on the EEN story, which details a car driver and a pedestrian disobeying the rules, and not a single mention of cyclists:
"TOP TIP. If you are driving towards the level crossing and the red lights are flashing, STOP (and that includes cyclists), or YOU WILL BE KILLED. Controversial I know, particularly for cyclists."
Chip on shoulder perhaps?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Absolutely not - I regularly take particular delight in putting my fleshy body in the way of lots of tonnes of speeding metal.
It's the thrill, yeah?
Posted 11 years ago # -
At peak time from 7 o'clock until 8 o'clock in the morning, the barrier will be shut for 36 minutes, 13 seconds. That's about 57 per cent of the time in that hour.
Am I being extremely stupid? If the number of trains isn't changing, and therefore the number of times and the length of time that the existing half-barriers are closed to road vehicles isn't changing, there must be a hell of a lot of drivers chancing their lives at present to be protesting so much about full-length barriers.
A Class 221 five-car trainset weighs 283 tonnes and the speed limit at Kirknewton is 95mph. Kinetic energy = 254,500 kJ, which strikes me as quite a lot for drivers to be trying to save mere minutes on their journey.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Absolutely not - I regularly take particular delight in putting my fleshy body in the way of lots of tonnes of speeding metal.
It's the thrill, yeah?
There's a user-operated foot crossing (basically, a couple of gates and some baords across the line) just to the west of the bypass on the route of "Donkey Lane".
There's some lights to say when it's safe to cross. Beyond that, you're on your own! It's nice to pause for a second and look up and down the line. Good view you don't normally get the chance tos ee.
Posted 11 years ago # -
It's nice to pause for a second and look up and down the line.
I don't hang about there for a second longer than I have to. I don't even go over the level crossing at Kingsknowe unless I've had a good look up and down the line before moving on to it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The foot crossing* on the ECML near Lindisfarne is fun. You're supposed to use the phone to check for a safe time the cross.
The man on the other end of the line says something along the lines of, "Cross now! Now!!! Quickly! Don't delay. CROSS NOW FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!"(I assumed there would be hardly any crossings like this but a quick Google suggests there are lots)
Posted 11 years ago # -
@Arellcat
Here is my limited knowledge of the Kirknewton Crossing. It currently has only half barriers. They only stop traffic entering the crossing on the left hand side of the road. They do not prevent you from leaving the crossing when the barriers are down. Hence some people will slalom around the barriers on the wrong side of the road. Basically the lights flash and shortly after the barriers come down. If someone or some thing remains on the crossing then there is nothing to stop or warn the train.
It is proposed that the new crossing will have full barriers, across both sides of the road. In order to safely close the barriers, the light flash, the left hand side barriers go down to prevent traffic entering the crossing. After a short period of time the right hand side barriers will go down. This prevents the slaloming I mentioned earlier. This take much longer than just dropping a half barriers. Also Kirknewton is also get an object detection system. This will warn the train drivers to stop if an object is detected on the crossing when barriers should be down. In order to allow trains travelling at up to 95 MPH to be stopped in time then barriers have to go down much earlier that for conventional half or full barriers.
The number of trains per hour is not increasing but the time the barriers are down is much longer of each train crossing. Hence the crossing will be closed to traffic and pedestrians for much longer per hour.
Hope this makes some sense.
Note despite my username I have no connections with the railways.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@biketrain very interesting information. Thanks for looking it out for us.
The new barriers sound like the thing parents say to kids along the lines of "if you can't play nicely, you can't play at all".
That crossing has a history of abuse (which has on occassions proved fatal) and the partial barriers and lights continue to be ignored, man from Network Rail quote - "The biggest risk associated with level crossings is drivers ignoring the warning signals and trying to race across or swerve around barriers before they close. This new system will discourage risk taking and introduce a further level of safety in the event of signals being ignored."
So in order to make the crossing safe (for everyone concerned, drivers, pedestrions, cycles and train passengers and drivers) then a barrier system has to be put in to physically close off the crossing in advance of an approaching train.
I do wonder why quite so many people need to drive through Kirknewton? As article says it might actually prove a benefit for the village by cutting down on through traffic.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This is on my "long commute" route, and I guess it is a bit of a rat run - but also, most of the village is one side of the railway and the main road is the other side. So it is reasonable that people from the village want to go down that way.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Thing is, from the article, it's not acctually the residents that are complaining about this!
The MP is. And the Community Council bod is. But there's no direct quote from the residents, and there's a suggestion it will actually make things better! (despite what the brainless EEN commenters are saying having only partly read the article).
Posted 11 years ago # -
AHB's activate with a 30 second minimum time between the train banging in at the sensor point. That's 30 seconds at full line speed so for a freight - or Shotts Line stopper the barriers will come down an you'll wait a bit longer. To get full signalled protection, the barriers will have to activate much earlier, if trains are to be operated on the basis that a crossing open to traffic is a blocked section, and only when the closed crossing is 'proved' can the signals be cleared. That will extend the road closed times substantially.
Posted 11 years ago # -
So it is reasonable that people from the village want to go down that way.
Although for the village, it's not the "obvious" route into Edinburgh - there being 2 others. So it's not as if they are entirely cut off by the nasty level crossing. Mildly inconvenienced for a few minutes a day, perhaps. But then I have to sit at stupid sets of traffic lights waiting to cross busy roads that aren't designed with me in mind either, so it's just reality.
Posted 11 years ago # -
nearly all the traffic I see at the A71 lights goes left, i.e. towards Livingston (or maybe even Glasgow). I think people heading for Edinburgh probably do go a different way.
If the MP has got involved, it is surely because he's had input from his constituents? That's what MPs do, I thought?
I'm not defending the complaints, by the way. It never seems that busy when I go through there, but it is about 7:30ish on the way out and 6pm ish on the way back so I'm not really seeing the rush hour.
Oh! I've just remembered! There are traffic counting wires across the road on both sides of the level crossing. They only went in the other week, and I was wondering why... now I can guess why...
Posted 11 years ago # -
"If the MP has got involved, it is surely because he's had input from his constituents? That's what MPs do, I thought?"
Ah, naive optimism.... Indeed, politicians are, technically, voted to represent their constituents. Until party politics take over of course, and self-interest. Given the news had only just come out I suspect the MP had simply been called for a quote, and he took a judgement call on what he thought the constituents might think.
Then again, I am ridiculously cynical about politics. There are definitely some of the good guys out there, but all too often I'm left completely cold by towing the party line or, when asked a quetion, answering on a complete and total tangent. It becomes like a game on the news, just seeing how little of the original question the politician will even acknowledge...
Posted 11 years ago # -
SRD and which Councillor? did SRD 'bollard'; the penny hasn't dropped with me yet!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Just reviving this thread for the topic onto which it got diverted - the Kirknewton level crossing will be closed to all traffic from next Sunday (19th) for a week. And they mean really closed, they're putting in a shuttle bus for pedestrians, so no walking through with your bike...
Posted 11 years ago #
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