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Leith Walk: revised plans

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  1. Kim
    Member

    The central problem with Leith Walk is that the traffic engineers are determined not to change the Leith Walk (or any other road in Edinburgh) to make it more cycle friendly or even pedestrian.

    Just look at the way in which the proposal to have a single stage pedestrian was remove from the plans, on the grounds that it would "increase" air pollution. This was done before the environmental assessment was carried out! So there was no basis for this change other than the traffic model said that it would slow down the motor traffic.

    It is also notable that LRT is considered more important in the consultations than the people of Edinburgh (many of whom are also bus users). We saw this with the 20mph zones, where the local consultations and Community Councils wanted to include the major roads, but LRT objected, and LRT won. Had the whole Southside been made a 20mph zone it would far more effective, and provide a precedent for Leith Walk.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "It is also notable that LRT is considered more important in the consultations than the people of Edinburgh"

    This is very true.

    Dave 'proved' on here that buses on the routes in the proposed 'blanket' south side 20mph area seldom went above 20mph.

    LB is a good bus company. It cares about buses - and has a very nice fleet. The problem is that it seems to care less about people and how they get to/from bus stops. It also (apparently) fails to consider/encourage/support measures that would increase the number of passengers.

    This would include measures that discouraged private car use (and therefore less traffic to hold buses up).

    Anyone who has ever visited Princes Street knows that buses hold buses up!

    How about having half the buses on key routes only stopping at 1/3 of the stops?

    Urban 'express' buses that might have short enough journey times to attract more paying passengers!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Government money is either capital or revenue – this was from revenue funding so was never going to end up building cycle paths, much as we very much support the Leith Walk project.

    "

    http://nicewaycode.com/2013/07/30/research-an-informed-approach-to-the-campaign/comment-page-1/#comment-102

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    http://momentummag.com/features/the-rise-of-the-north-american-protected-bike-lane/

    The lane markings say "ONLY BIKE" - might be an idea on MMW! Though might go with the arrow and mean 'in this direction'.

    "
    The purpose of the NACTO Urban Bikeway Design Guide (part of the Cities for Cycling initiative) is to provide cities with state-of-the-practice solutions that can help create complete streets that are safe and enjoyable for bicyclists.

    "

    $49.95

    http://nacto.org/cities-for-cycling/design-guide/

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Kim
    Member

    The problems with Middle Meadow Walk are mainly caused by a minority, probably if you put them in cars they would be the same people how cause problems on the roads. Changing a persons mode of transport does not make them a better person, it just changes the scale of damage they can do to others.

    The use of planters on Leith Walk has been proposed several times in the consultations, sadly the council officials aren't interested in making Leith Walk a better place.

    It used to be said that what happens in the US happens here 10 years latter. If our traffic planners and engineers won't listen to their counterparts on the Continent, they will probably ape their American counterparts, who are currently learning the lesson from Europe.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. cc
    Member

    the council officials aren't interested in making Leith Walk a better place

    Sad but true. They just want to ram lots of traffic up it.

    If our traffic planners and engineers won't listen to their counterparts on the Continent, they will probably ape their American counterparts

    That's what I've been expecting for some years now. I think it's more indirect than that, though. The US copies Europe; London copies the US; we copy London. (*)
    Thankfully London is starting to think about putting in actual decent usable infrastructure, just dipping its toe in the water. I give it 10 years before decent infrastructure is accepted in London as a normal thing to build. Then another 10 years before Edinburgh cottons on to the good things happening in London. So I give it 20 years before Edinburgh does anything as good as what it could be doing today to improve Leith Walk.

    (*) Why, I have no idea. Who'd want to copy London?

    I hope I'm being way too negative, btw.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. bdellar
    Member

    OT I know, but one reason I plan to vote Yes next year, is in the hope that Scotland will then look to other parts of Europe (and further afield) for inspiration, and not just to London.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. PS
    Member

    OT I know, but one reason I plan to vote Yes next year, is in the hope that Scotland will then look to other parts of Europe (and further afield) for inspiration, and not just to London.

    The frustrating thing is that I can see nothing to stop the SG doing this now (and, indeed, every incentive in a "we're different from those tossers down south" kind of way). Except for the "don't upset the apple cart until after the referendum" approach of course. Which is rather timid. Or feart, in SNP-speak.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. Dave
    Member

    OT I know, but one reason I plan to vote Yes next year, is in the hope that Scotland will then look to other parts of Europe (and further afield) for inspiration, and not just to London.

    Famously I came to the opposite conclusion.

    My conclusion is that there's more chance of getting cycling going by trickle down from London now (who would have imagined that our alternative is even more car-centric than the Tories!)

    Firmly a 'no' now, and will be pushing people that way if I can.

    (I voted SNP in both the last elections... unwisely as it turns out).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    "Except for the "don't upset the apple cart until after the referendum" approach"

    I have no reason to believe that political attitudes to 'cycling' will be different after the referendum - whatever the result.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    Good discussion here (might be worth continuing) -

    YesScotland: not for cyclists

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9665

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Dear Stakeholder,

    The Leith Programme –email update 28 – Constitution Street open to traffic - 1 August

    Following the road resurfacing work, Constitution Street fully reopened to two-way traffic again on 1 August. The squads on site will now be focusing on completing the laying of the Caithness slabs on both east and west side footways in order to endeavour to meet the 16 August completion schedule.

    The west side footway, from Maritime Lane northwards, has been widened and a significant amount of resurfacing has already been completed there. For people who haven’t seen this part of Constitution Street recently, it’s well worth a visit to see the changes that are being made. These changes, it is hoped, will result in the area getting a real lift that benefits residents, businesses and visitors and increase the street’s attractiveness as a destination point.

    New photos, showing the most recent work, have been uploaded onto our image gallery.

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. PS
    Member

    "Except for the "don't upset the apple cart until after the referendum" approach"

    I have no reason to believe that political attitudes to 'cycling' will be different after the referendum - whatever the result.

    I agree with you on that, but was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. sallyhinch
    Member

    BTW here's a nice new toy for redesigning street cross sections. http://streetmix.net/

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. bdellar
    Member

    For the record, I'm not an SNP fan either, and I don't have any hope of getting anything good from them. Never voted for them.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Dear Stakeholder,

    The Leith Programme –email update 29 – Constitution Street programme

    Tarmac Lafarge, our contractors, have been endeavouring to meet the original indicative completion timescale of 16 August. Unfortunately, the work in the area between Coatfield Lane and Bernard Street has taken longer than expected to complete. A further two weeks is anticipated to take this into account. The new completion date is now 27 August.

    A copy of the updated project programme has been published on our website, http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/leithimprovements , for your information.

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "

    SydneyCycleways (@SydneyCycleway)
    12/08/2013 22:51
    The separated cycleway on George St, Redfern is taking shape! #sydneyrides

    http://pic.twitter.com/XSaVpJum8B

    "

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. sallyhinch
    Member

    Royal College street in London is undergoing a makeover with tracks segregated using armadillos and planters

    http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/08/12/update-on-royal-college-street/

    Total cost for the length of the street £50k. Seems pretty reasonable to me

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    The referendum is only about ONE thing, to link it to support or opposition to a politician, an party or a cause (e.g. cycling) is just silly.

    Back on topic, I don't think its a coincidence that cycling has been given a greater priority in London not because the Mayor cycles, but because they have a directly elected civic leader.

    If our provost was directly elected I think we could find a like minded candidate for the job.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. Dave
    Member

    The referendum is only about ONE thing, to link it to support or opposition to a politician, an party or a cause (e.g. cycling) is just silly.

    This is clearly not true. For a less tenuous example, is the Yes vote associated with a nuclear free Scotland?

    While I can see the appeal of separating which city the government is based in from any policy outcomes that might follow on from independence, I'm far too cynical to take that at face value.

    You can't just decouple the whole political system from the referendum question because *nominally* it's only asking where our MPs should sit.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Have to agree with Dave. Independence will have an impact (whether good or bad) on the NHS, economics, transport, education (despite the systems being pseudo separate), defence. It's about way way way more than just 'Scotland should/shouldn't be an independent nation'.

    And absolutely any election at all has people basing their choice on one policy, or one politician, or even forgetting any local element and simply on who they want to be PM/FM - the Independence vote is no different.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    We'll have to disagree on that then!

    IMHO it is only about whether we govern ourselves or we don't.

    And its not an election, its a referendum. This has nothing to do with policy, parties or personalities. Its about the power attached to your vote in future elections. Which are unlikely to be about leith Walk ;-)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "This has nothing to do with policy, parties or personalities"

    As you say, will have to aagree to disagree. There will be people who think "Well we can get rid of trident if we're independent". I've seen lots of posts on Facebook from friends saying "We can take our soldiers out of Iraq if we're independent". And it certainly shouldn't be about personality, but Salmond has it in abundance and you can guarantee the SNP will be playing on that ebcause lots of people WILL be swayed by that.

    Obviously the main issue is about whether we govern ourselves or we don't. But surely people are then thinking "and what happens if we do govern ourselves?" As soon as you post that question of yourself it's got a lot more to it than the simple governance issue.

    "Its about the power attached to your vote in future elections" in itself is a statement that it's about more than we govern ourselves. You're thinking that therefore your vote may carry more weight, and consequently the things you care about may find themselves higher up the political agenda and so you can have more of a say. Much like the person who thinks "if we're independent my dream that we get rid of Trident may come true."

    (though I'll agree that Leith Walk is a trifling little matter in the givernance of the whole country and I doubt anyone would be basing their voting on such a small item as that).

    (and yes, it's a referendum, but it's still a vote pushed by political interests and arguments, and as you say is about essentially 'who' governs us, so it's really an election in all but name)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  24. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    p.s. I'm not saying that personalities or individual issues will determine how I vote at all. I prefer to look at the rounded policies (which again is more than the 'whether we govern ourselves or not') - but we all know three are penty of people, generally folk who like X Factor, who will decide on the most ridiculous of reasons.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  25. chdot
    Admin

    There's a proper thread for this somewhere...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    The referendum is only about the principle of independence to people who believe in independence or disagree with it on principle. I suspect those people are a minority in both camps. For everyone else it's about practical issues of whether life will be better or not.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    but we all know three are penty of people, generally folk who like X Factor, who will decide on the most ridiculous of reasons.

    I've been surprised by some of the folk I have met who watch X Factor (or similar programmes). I am not one of them, I hasten to add. Whether those people 'like' the programme or otherwise I'm not sure.

    Rather as I've been surprised by some of the folk I have met who have voted Conservative (or similar parties). I am not one of them, I hasten to add. Whether those people 'like' the party or otherwise I'm not sure.

    Which leads me to the conclusion that just because you watch something on telly does not mean that you 'like' it necessarily, though it may mean you (at least tacitly) 'agree' with it in some way which an external observer may be unable to quantify precisely. By extension, just because you vote a particular way in an election or referendum...

    Anyway, how is the whole Leth Walk thing going I wonder? I attended the consultation, tried to query and persuade the officials/street designers, jotted down my thoughts on a bit of paper supplied and handed it in. Haven't e-mailed anyone those same thoughts as yet. Must be lobbying fatigue or the rather welcome real summer we've enjoyed.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    This video has been on CCE before and is not directly relevant to LW, but shows a cheap way of creating a bike lane and showcases the all-American word YIELD.

    GIVE WAY isn't quite the same!

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    .

    http://www.streetfilms.org/the-capitols-colossal-contraflow-cycle-track

    Posted 11 years ago #

  29. neddie
    Member

    What we already know:

    http://streetsblog.net/2013/08/13/further-evidence-that-road-diets-dont-hurt-businesses/

    Posted 11 years ago #

  30. Calum
    Member

    Hmmm. Those Royal College Street armadillos and American bollards look a bit cheap and nasty. I predict that people will drive into them and the bike lane will become a de facto car park. If we're to have protected bike lanes then I think the segregation needs to be very substantial indeed.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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