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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!)

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  1. Fountainbridge
    Member

  2. Blueth
    Member

    Popped in to the church hall this afternoon. A small group was giving the chap a slightly hard time about some of the proposals; he deflected this by saying that the idea was to encourage the less confident cyclist though he recognised that the more serious cyclists would be frustrated by the presence of these and that the expectation was that the serious cyclists would therefore continue to use the road.

    I'm sure that will go down well with the Evening News.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    "the expectation was that the serious cyclists would therefore continue to use the road"

    Do you mean that's what CEC expects to happen?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. Blueth
    Member

    I don't know if he represented the Council or the consultant but it's probably fairer to say that when the group pointed out, after his statement about more serious cyclists, he concurred with what they said about using the road rather than the new facility.

    He certainly seemed quite equanimous about it and did not suggest that was defeating the purpose.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. neddie
    Member

    One was a local business woman in Roseburn who was concerned about disabled customers not being able to reach her shop

    When someone shows concern that disabled people won't be able to park, what they are really showing is concern that they won't be able to park...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. fimm
    Member

    Consultation at Haymarket this afternoon / evening. I have just significantly reduced my chances of making it by missing a train.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. Stickman
    Member

    Think it's on until 8pm.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. fimm
    Member

    Yes, made it.

    Was good to see the whole plans in big size. I've come away with some hard copies but I think I missed out on a hard copy of the Roseburn end of things. Mostly very impressive that they're going for full-on segregated tracks with car-parking on the outside and a kerb between the parking and the cycle lane to a) prevent parking in the lane and b) provide a cusion space between lane and car.

    Also slightly gobsmacked by the segregated lanes at the east end of Princes Street - wasn't expecting that!

    They're going to improve the cut-throughs by the cathedral, but I can see that becoming a pinchpoint - there's only so much space.

    I'm concerned about the Melville Street - Walker Street junction which is this lovely big circle with a statue in the middle - how do we make sure cars slow down and turn with care in order for there not to be left hooks? Normally you'd say extend the kerb so that the turn is tight and the cars have to slow right down but that's more tricky with the circle there. There's going to be a separate consultation on that area.

    I made some comment about tactiles and the person I was speaking to started talking about slowing cyclist down for things like floating bus stops which in retrospect is a bit of a concern because obviously that's not what they're for so I'll make sure I feed back on that.

    There's a big hole at Charlotte Square because that's going to be a separate project too...

    The plan is to re-do all the setts on Randoph Place with flat-topped ones which will be nicer to cycle on.

    I've got a hard-copy consultation form to fill in and return. I got a second one and will see if I can persuade Boyfriend of Fimm to fill it in too...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. fimm
    Member

    I meant to ask how wide the lanes would be - if a faster cyclist can't pass a slower cyclist then that will be a problem.

    I did also talk about my problems with getting out of Dalry Road and the man said something about there going to be traffic lights with a head start for cyclists elsewhere on the route, so if they work then I might have a chance in my one-woman campaign (which hasn't started yet) for something similar at Dalry Road.

    I think I'm stuck with walking round the corner to get to Haymarket though. There didn't seem to be any change there.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. Stickman
    Member

    @fimm: good stuff, thanks for the update. I was told at the previous consultation that the segregated section between Roseburn/Haymarket would be 2.5m wide. They are struggling to squeeze things in on Roseburn Terrace, but I think the West Coates section could be wider. I didn't think to ask how wide the other sections will be.

    My frustration now is the enormous length of time these things take to get done.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. Rosie
    Member

    Did attend the consultation not in my cycling gear and eavesdropped on everyone moaning about cyclists taking all the space and those suing the Council over accidents on the tramlines should take a hike. Why couldn't they stop and walk?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    cyclists taking all the space

    If only!

    those suing the Council...can take a hike.

    For which we can thank the EEN for their s**t-stirring articles and coverage.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Why couldn't they stop and walk?

    seems reasonable. Why wouldn't anyone come to a stop in moving 2-lane traffic, with a line of Lothian Buses on Princes Street or Edinburgh's finest cabbies at Haymarket up their mudguard and get off their bike and push it slowly across the tramlines before trying to remount and get back on their way.

    *Facepalm*

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. Rosie
    Member

    Dear Stakeholder,

    Following initial consultation regarding the Roseburn to Leith cycle link and street improvements it has been agreed that there should be an extension on the period for reply.

    The period for responding has been extended until 1 February 2016.

    Thank you to those that have already responded and further comments can continue to be submitted by email to cyclingprojects.consultation@edinburgh.gov.uk or via the online survey at the website http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roseburntoleith

    Regards

    Allan

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. wingpig
    Member

    Managed to get to the consultation for a wee look, but was distracted by a gentleman with more bees than he had bonnets to keep them, who was volubly and impolitely trying to harangue a representative. He has no problem cycling along West Coates, nor do his three sons, therefore there's no problem, so why this £7m vanity project BAAARGHFROTH and so on.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    I replied on-line. Put down a few A-B fail comments as once again the council seem the think that hugely circuitous routes are acceptable for cycling. It all stems from the obsession with George St as the main E-W corridor, rather than Princes St.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. HankChief
    Member

    Should we be worried by the delay?

    It does feel like this is the schmeme that will get the motorists most excited...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. PS
    Member

    Went to the consultation yesterday. TBH, I was much more impressed than I thought I would be. I could see me using it for a relaxed morning commute, especially if all the talk of giving cyclists/pedestrians priority at junctions is for real.

    A couple of harrumphers were in. The principal bee in one chaps' bonnet was the need for DHL to pull up outside his business. Another had seen the St Leonards cycleway without any cyclists on, so was concerned this was a waste of money...

    It's clear it's still a work in progress - for instance, they don't quite know how the lane along York Place is going to work, especially given that the high pavement there is on top of cellars. How it interacts with Picardy Place and Broughton Street is TBC too.

    Some potential improvements:
    Could Grosvenor Crescent and Lansdowne Crescent be made one way to allow for a protected cycleway on this one unprotected section? Otherwise that's a potentially risky gap in the link for kids etc.
    Atholl Place and Shandwick Place is a real problem for them (lack of road space) Could a protected lane be run on from Haymarket at least to Coates Crescent to link in to the Melville St facilities?

    The Elder Street junction issues have been discussed elsewhere, but it does look like a real pinch point.

    Slightly OT, but Leith Street remains a real problem that they don't have a solution for. The combo of the bus stop and two lanes at the top makes it a real mess. Not clear why that bus stop has to be there given the potential Picardy Place redesign and interchange and improved accessibility to St James Centre from there.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    "Leith Street remains a real problem that they don't have a solution for"

    I wasn't aware they were looking!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. PS
    Member

    I wasn't aware they were looking!

    Oh, they're not. Not in the context of this consultation at least. But I do like to bring it up at every opportunity.

    Frankly very disappointing that the wholescale demolition of the St James Centre has not been used as an opportunity to do whatever needs to be done to improve that street, but that's very much OT...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    "but that's very much OT..."

    NO, it's not.

    Problem is -

    Problems and missed opportunities entirely down to CEC being unable to take proper 'holistic views' - and sometimes ignoring/overturning various previous plans/policies.

    AND THEN everyone suffering the consequences and/or continuing to moan "if only".

    So any time anyone has the opportunity to say 'yes but, how will that affect'...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. daisydaisy
    Member

    This far from impartial email was sent to all parents at Roseburn Primary School (near the start of the Roseburn-Leith cycle path) today:

    Roseburn Primary School : ”Breifing Note – Roseburn to Leith Walk Stakeholder List.pfd”)

    Dear Parents and Carers,

    Our local councillor Jeremy Balfour, who is also a member of the Roseburn Parent Partnership Group, has highlighted that the City of Edinburgh Council has proposed road changes to the busy main road at the junction Roseburn Terrace with the addition of a protected cycleway, narrowing the vehicular traffic to a single lane. I understand that many school families are not aware of these proposals which have the potential to increase traffic past the school and increase cycle traffic through Roseburn Park. I’m sure you will agree that this has an impact on safety around the school. Apparently the company employed by the Council have not delivered leaflets to doors as planned.

    The council has a number of drop in events giving more information on these proposals and is also seeking input and feedback on the proposals during the consultation period. If you feel so inclined to input and comment , the information you need to do so is contained here. The council is required to take into account the views of the stakeholders in these proposals so please comment if you can.

    Please see the following link and attachment.

    Following consideration of the report roseburn_to_leith_walk_cycle_route_and_street_improvement_project_-_public_consultation_for_the_preliminary_design">Roseburn to Leith Walk Cycle Route and Street Improvement Project Public Consultation for the Preliminary Design (27/12/15) the Transport & Environment Committee requested that a list of all the groups/organisations that Officers are intending to contact/consult with be circulated both TEC members and Ward Councillors for information.

    Regards

    Paul Millan

    Roseburn Parent Partnership Group

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. daisydaisy
    Member

    There is a clear implication that parents should object to the proposal. I am not happy with this use of the school mailing list and have written to the school about it.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. LivM
    Member

    I looked at their website a while ago and they said that only children in P6 and 7 are allowed to cycle to school. Didn't like that attitude so we'll be sending our wee man elsewhere.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. daisydaisy
    Member

    Wow, I hadn't seen that. There is a new head teacher this year. I hope the attitude improves.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. gembo
    Member

    I would not want to interfere in anyone's choice of school but mode of transport to school and age of use of pRticular transport really only limited variables in determining selection? Personally I would prefer if everyone just went to their local school. Just my opinion.. Lots of pupils going to roseburn who take scooters in the morning and they always seem happy.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    A past HT was so against cycling to school that she refused to allow racks on the premises - which is why they were put on the pavement outside!

    I hope that email encourages more people to back the changes!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. ih
    Member

    Just taken a look at their 2015/16 School Handbook. Under "Cycling" it says:

    "Cycling

    At Roseburn we aim to encourage safe cycling and staff and parent volunteers have provided ‘Bikeablity’ cycle training for older children. Cycle racks are available for children wishing to cycle to and from school."

    It doesn't explicitly ban younger kids from cycling to school, although it says 'Bikeability' is provided for older children. Does this allow younger children to cycle if their parents believe them competent to do so, or accompany their children?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    HTs can't ban children from cycling to school.

    They might be able to 'ban use of bike parking' (on the premises), but I'd hope they wouldn't try.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. LivM
    Member

    This was a couple of years ago, so good to see that things have moved on. We will be sending our boy to the closest school to us. And intending to cycle as soon as possible.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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