Should be here/iPlayer after transmission -
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Virgin Trains East Coast 'Azuma' train
(104 posts)-
Posted 5 years ago #
-
Discovering interference problems during testing of novel trainsets is extremely normal
This is why testing happens
Posted 5 years ago # -
But are they that novel?
Problem seems to be older railside equipment (generally north of York).
Hitachi blaming NR.
NR blaming Hitachi.
Adonis blaming everyone. (He ordered trains 10 years ago.)
Posted 5 years ago # -
Some interesting/illuminating comments about this from railforums.co.uk:
"
The IET [= Azuma, = Class 800, generically] will have been tested to ensure that its interference emissions do not exceed the limits stated in the relevant Network Rail EMI standard for trains. This will have been done prior to any general permissions for running on Network Rail.
In view of this, a probable explanation of the problem is that the particular signalling equipment north of York has a lower susceptibility threshold to interference than the maximum specified emissions level for trains. The fact that the signalling may not have experienced interference problem earlier is because older trains may have a lower emissions level than the IET, even though the IET passes the emission tests.
"
"
Interference has been identified, however this has had no negative impact on the signal system.
The 'ban' on electric operation north of Colton is a precautionary measure until Network Rail/Hitachi fix the issue.
Its been on going for several months.
"
"
NR are currently not prepared to extend the statement of compatibility for 800 series stock for electric passenger operation outside of the current Paddington to Didcot section [the bit of the Great Western main line where class 800s are already running] due to potential signalling interference issues.
Talks between Hitachi/NR/DfT are ongoing and possible solutions for both routes are being discussed and trialled.
Frankly, it’s a bit of a mess and neither the DfT or Hitachi are reported to be amused.
"
"
You can see why really! If Hitachi have delivered a product that meet the standards they were told would be sufficient to have Network Rail now move the goal posts is going to rankle.
"
All posts dated 30th/31st August so the BBC seems to be a bit behind the curve with this story.
It seems likely that the interference problems relate to axle counters. These have always seemed to me to be a rather Heath Robinson approach to detecting the presence or otherwise of trains on a stretch of track, compared to track circuits that as a lad I was told might have prevented the Quintinshill disaster as well as others such as Ais Gill/Hawes Junction, but apparently they have a number of advantages and are basically the standard way it's done these days.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Ghost train spotted at Waverley
https://twitter.com/PaulMil00747350/status/1039872522727108610?s=19Posted 5 years ago # -
Much as I enjoy RealTimeTrains, is there a way to find out when certain rolling stock will be in a certain place, other than scrutinising gen lists or happy accidents? I haven't seen an Azuma yet.
Posted 5 years ago # -
Probably not beyond finding out where it comes from and so if it is diagrammed at all.
There are timings for SR 125 tests into November!
Posted 5 years ago # -
Azumas start from Edinburgh early tomorrow morning - if you were going to wave it off you'll be in bed already...
Bike space is hanging - see video on twitter
But the good news is that apparently it will take a tandem up to 2.5m but you need to book 2 spaces...
It also saying staff will help you load your bike...
https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/travel-tips/travelling-with-cycles/#Azuma
I'll should be on one next week (sans velo) but will try to report back...
Posted 4 years ago # -
D'oh. Got my dates wrong. It is tomorrow that the Azumas start from Edinburgh. 1 train a day only to start with.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Intesting looking at the seating diagrams for the Azuma. There are 9 car sets that look roughly similar to the current set make up, and 5 car sets that can be joined to make up 10 car sets.
9 car sets have 4 hanging spaces in the joint 1st/2nd class carriage, and 5 car sets have 2 hanging spaces in the joint carriage. So again, 4 spaces in the 10 car sets.
Just hope there is more room to manoeuvre than in the Cross Country trains.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Does this mean they have sorted the signalling interference issues? Or will they run on diesel north of York?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-45435683
EDIT: Apparently work still 'ongoing' to fix this.
---
With work continuing to address potential EMC interference with signalling equipment on parts of the ECML, the initial clearance only applies to the route between London King’s Cross and Leeds. Network Rail is installing isolation transformers to the signalling between York and Edinburgh before this section can be cleared. In addition, reactors are being fitted to each transformer car, adding approximately 750 kg per vehicle.
According to an industry insider, Network Rail ‘has taken a risk-based approach to bringing the trains into service without the filters on the transformer cars’, on the understanding that they will be fitted by the end of 2019 or early next year. In the meantime if the interference issues damage signalling modules or track circuits, NR has reserved the right to impose restrictions on the trains or revoke the acceptance. Meanwhile, ORR has instructed Hitachi to ‘record harmonic footprints for each train prior to entry into service on the ECML’.
---
Posted 4 years ago # -
4 bike spaces really is pretty mediocre. Not only is it a significant downgrade from the whole DVT guard's van that InterCity 225s have, but it's less than the minimum 8 bike spaces that the European Parliament will require on trains in the future.
The Azuma seating plan (PDF) shows a number of unmarked carriage end compartments: are these toilets that they have just forgotten to mark, empty space, or do they contain train equipment? If they are not used for any other purpose, it would be good if some of these spaces could also be used for bike storage, so that more than one family (or small group of friends) can take the same train.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@davecykl - interesting to see the pdf of 5, 10 and 9 car layouts.
- Bike spaces in semi-first class coach.
10 car has 4 spaces I think on basis of being two 5 coach trains hooked together. Numbered 99 + 00 on pdf
9 car has 4 spaces - numbered 97, 98, 99 + 00 on pdfThe plan spaces look long but if they were really long enough to be 2.5m then would easily carry more bikes?
2.5m woudl be long enough for a Helios triplet or our folding recumbent tandem (without folding!).
When we took that tandem on East Coast in 2014 the guard said with some pleasure that bikes such as ours would not be going on the new regime. Surely they haven't relented and catered for tandemers? :-)
Posted 4 years ago # -
In late September I'm booked on a work trip to London. New sleeper down, new Azuma back (apparently the 1730 KGX-EDB on that date is a Azuma). I'll be taking a Brompton. What could possibly go wrong?
For the avoidance of doubt, that's a rhetorical question. I don't want a list from you.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@greenroofer I assume that was a deliberate decision to get the Azuma back...
I tend to get the 1700 back as it stops fewer times so is quicker and you get less disturbance from people getting on and off.
Keen to know what you make of the new sleeper carriages. Now the price has gone up, I'm not sure I will get it past my boss again. I did have a *genuine* reason why the sleeper would be the most sensible option for me but because it was August the only ticket was £280 which I didn't have the heart to try to get through.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Looks like we will need to wait a while longer for faster journey times... (I used to take sub 4hour trains in the 90s)
"From December, extra services will be added to provide trains between Edinburgh and London every half hour.
Then in December 2021, trains at two-hourly intervals will be speeded up by some 20 minutes to take around four hours"
Posted 4 years ago # -
The first train in morning 5.50am used to take 4 hours (few stops)
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo- it still does. 5.40 stops only at Newcastle and gets to London 9.40.
That's the Southbound train the Azuma is starting on.
IIRC in the 90s it used to start at 6.00 and stop at Newcastle & York and get get to London don for 9.59
Posted 4 years ago # -
“
Paul Tetlaw, rail spokesman for sustainable transport campaigners Transform Scotland, said: “We’re confident Azuma will make a critical contribution to driving the switch from air to rail.”
But he called for more Scottish electrification to cut emissions and match the £3 billion spent on dualling the A9.
A spokesman for the Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency said: “Electrification of Scotland’s railway network is a key component of our commitment to improving rail services and tackling climate change. We are working with Network Rail to identify the next scheme.”
“
Posted 4 years ago # -
The steam train from Ayr to Glasgow did it in virtually the same time as the diesel and then the electric. I think also using the fewer stops routine.
I took the first train to London (good to know 540) it was 550 a couple of years back. Is an early start from Balerno. Got to Waverley to discover it was cancelled and we were all on the six o’clock without reservations. Took 5 hours. Late for morning meeting. And nearly asleep at afternoon meeting. Still had the ticket reimbursed in full so not all bad.
Posted 4 years ago # -
@HC - agreed, the price for the sleeper is extortionate now, such that I'm not sure I can justify it again. The thing is that it does get you in to London nice and early: essentially it's competing with a hotel room for the previous night. The alternative is waking the family by getting up at silly o'clock for the plane or train, and I won't countenance the plane for reasons of environment and a dislike of standing in queues and intimate searches.
Posted 4 years ago # -
AIUI the new trains in themselves won't make much difference to journey times. The current IC225 electric trains, which were introduced in 1989, are capable of 140mph (they've apparently achieved 160mph in testing) but the infrastructure can't support that.
The Class 800s in electric mode might be a bit more sprightly than the IC225s (not entirely sure) but the fast services don't stop very often so timetable gains from better acceleration aren't likely to be huge I'd have thought.
To get higher speed running on the ECML would require enhancements to the signalling (in-cab signalling) and the overhead power lines. I believe that plans exist to upgrade the infrastructure at the southern end of the line, which might be how it's planned to achieve the more regular 4-hour services. If that's the case then the timetable improvements by 2021 are dependent on Network Rail fulfilling their part of the bargain.
Posted 4 years ago # -
Overhead cables in south east England melted last week, no trains running, fist fights on platforms. Melted in sense of sagging, rail tracks also slightly buckled by heat so trains that did run went very slowly
So with global warming best only to go south in the gap between the scorching heat and the light snowfalls that also paralyse the network.?
Posted 4 years ago # -
@all, that first train to London is officially The Flying Scotsman. In steam era local services were diverted onto passing loops at stations, goods yards, etc. in order that the express flyer could pass through without delay. Since the 1960s most of the passing loops, freight yards etc. sold off and housing/supermarkets/car parks built in their place. This I believe is one of the reasons why it is so tricky to run fast express services over any distance: see east coast line north of Edinburgh for example, where express regularly held up by late running Fife local services. Beeching report (and Tory government that commissioned it) has a lot to answer for.
Posted 4 years ago # -
“express regularly held up by late running Fife local services”
And vice versa!
At least one local train is scheduled to wait in the passing loop near Inverkeithing to let train from Aberdeen pass, making the journey 10 mins longer -
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G21695/2019/08/01/advanced
Posted 4 years ago # -
@gembo "So with global warming best only to go south in the gap between the scorching heat and the light snowfalls that also paralyse the network.?"
Isn't that the window when the trains are delayed by leaves on the line?
Posted 4 years ago # -
Oh Fudge @acsimpson you are right how about in the period after the light snowfall but before the ultra scorching heat. They call it Spring but feels too hot for us
Posted 4 years ago # -
"Unseasonal" heavy snow/freezing conditions from Siberia or noah level rain.... Soz
Posted 4 years ago # -
Not forgetting of course flooding/landslips caused by "unexpectedly heavy rain" and downed power lines, trees across line etc. caused by "storms" (known as "wind" north of York but virtually unheard of south of Doncaster).
Was the climate dryer and less windy 100 years ago when the railways were new? Or is it just that there's more water run-off from surrounding land due to trees, hedgerows etc. disappearing, and conversely, more mature trees close to railways due to lack of clearing and maintenance of cuttings etc.? (Granted overhead power lines were only an issue for trams 100 years ago).
Posted 4 years ago # -
Trains probably always delayed? First ever fatality occurred on the inaugural journey of The Rocket. If you know your Husskissons. Due to a stop that was necessary perhaps to take on water
Posted 4 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
