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Kind of OT: 'Marginal gains'

(12 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by Baldcyclist
  • Latest reply from Baldcyclist

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  1. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Lots of talk in the last few days about Alex Ferguson retiring at the end of the season.

    Must admit to not really being into football, but do confess to the odd torture session watching United in Europe somehow scraping through when all seemed lost. I've always admired that never giving up when all seems lost philosophy.

    Got me thinking, Ferguson probably is the best sporting coach of modern times, no one yet has matched his success, and longevity, but...

    Could Brailsford manage Man United? Would 'marginal gains' transfer to football? His 'hate losing' attitude, and hard approach would probably stand him in good stead in the football world....

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. wingpig
    Member

    If you make a handlebar 5% lighter and 22% more aerodynamic then it stays 5% lighter and 22% more aerodynamic. Association football performers' abilities seem to be subject to huge and unpredictable variations, not least the peculiar apparent link between the time elapsed since a team's manager was last sacked and the performers' ability to win goals; a handlebar cannot have its effectiveness reduced by imbibing alcohol, inhaling recreational drug-powders and getting into a fight the previous evening.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. Min
    Member

    Perhaps a rounder football would help?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. "a handlebar cannot have its effectiveness reduced by imbibing alcohol, inhaling recreational drug-powders and getting into a fight the previous evening"

    No, but stopping a footballer from doing so would surely be a 'marginal gain'? And I think the OP point was that Brailsford's 'attitude' filters down to those under his care. So yes, the handlebar stays the same, but he's guided the likes of Hoy and Wiggins and Trott above and beyond what the bike is capable of on its own (generally falling over as there's no-one to balance on it).

    It's this 'win' mentality that could translate very well to football. He'd need a football-knowledgeable coaching team for the aptitude side of things, but I actually reckon an analytical person like Brailsford could pick up the intricacies of tactics pretty well.

    That said, I've never liked SAF (though I can appreciate his achievements, much like I can appreciate Cantona's outstanding talent on the pitch, but can never forgive him for scoring late-ish in the game against Newcastle when we had hammered Man U 0-0 up to that point, in the season we really really should have won the league).

    I do like the idea that to celebrate Fergie there will be a minute's applause in all games this weekend.... In the 98th minute....

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. wingpig
    Member

    "Stopping a footballer from doing so would surely be a 'marginal gain'?"

    More than marginal. Tricky to do, though. You'd need to rebuild association footballers from the bottom up to make them more concerned with applying themselves to effectively playing association football rather than to their various distractions, perhaps by only paying them sensible amounts, not televising performances, not celebrifying them and not devoting the majority of many newspapers and purported news website-space to their antics.

    "And I think the OP point..."

    Since when has that mattered on this site?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Ferguson has made his own luck but when he was first at Man Utd he was maybe one game away from being sacked, won it and so began his journey to being a legend. He was therefore fortunate that the Man U board had just enough patience.

    He was very good at flinging a tea tray loaded with half time cuppasnandnbiscuiits against the dressing room wall as a motivational aid. SDB not quite in that mould?

    He beat Keegan in the war of the minds, without too much trouble. Remember he managed aberdeen when they won the cup winners cup and beat Real Madrid n the final. St Mirren also good team

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. remberbuck
    Member

    But "marginal gains" have not been a blinding success for Brailsford either. "Marginal gains" is a concept from the pseudo science world of business management, thus if you manage to find a way of sticking a label on a can of beans slightly quicker then you will produce more cans, and make more money. Once you depart from the the simple process world of the production line, then the real worth of "marginal gain" becomes more fictional.

    Thus, in cycling business management worked very well in the highly controlled and relatively predictable world of the track. Once he took a team to the Tour it began to fall apart. One example was the screening of riders from the public when warming up prior to a stage start. The marginal gain was meant to be that the riders would have a slightly more focussed warm up than others. The surprisingly unforeseen result was the negative public and press coverage from what was seen as an afront to Tour culture. And the riders didn't like it either. So, to his credit, Brailsford realised that such concepts had limitied value in a more complicated world and ditched this approach in 2012, with known results. Simply, a point passes when it make sense to treat athletes as means of production.

    "Marginal gains" have been tried in football management. Such well known and successful names as ... err ... Sam Allardyce and Craig Levine come to mind. That is not to say that there is no value in understanding what happens during a football match and how best to use your players, but on learing that Allardyce spent 100s of hours studying tape to work out where best to place a player to deal with a near post corner clearance, you do wonder.

    (The answer was 2 yards out from the corner of the penalty box at the side where the corner was taken).

    The most interesting example of cross over is Clive Woodward, highly successful in applying business management ideas to the set play dominated world of rugby, yet a failure at Southampton FC.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    "Kind of" OT????

    "Very" more like.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. PS
    Member

    "You'd need to rebuild association footballers from the bottom up to make them more concerned with applying themselves to effectively playing association football rather than to their various distractions..."

    I remember being somewhat surprised when the press lauded Cantona, Beckham and Giggs for sticking around for an extra hour after their 2 or 3 times a week, 3 hour long training sessions to practise skills, free kicks etc. Kind of highlighted the work ethic (or lack of it) of the others...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. Something that always annoyed me about footballers were the top professionals who were clearly only able to play properly with one foot. It always struck me that they had loads of free time and should be able to spend ages on that to become even better.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. cc
    Member

    Somebody mention Cantona?

    Eric Cantona, Eric Cantona,
    a banana with no na is a bana

    John Hegley, poet and genius

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. Baldcyclist
    Member


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