@wfb - that explains neatly why PoP was run in segments. There's no need at all to annoy people not involved - and certainly not people who might otherwise be sympathetic to the aims of the event.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
PoP2 - thoughts
(131 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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My belated tuppenceworth.
I nearly didn't make it this year due to assorted child transportation shenanigans Sunday morning, plus Mrs crowriver deciding she wasn't attending after all. Still managed to hoof it up to the Meadows roughly on time, just before 3pm, by which point there a huge line of cyclists gathered patiently.
On my way up I noted that Chambers Street was closed to traffic, but not George IV bridge, this was just before 3pm.
In the queue I was very near the back though this was a moveable feast as stragglers continued to arrive even as the front set off. It was a different perspective to last year where I'd been on MMW in the main body of the kirk. For one thing, out at the back the marshalls were more thinly spread and I barely heard the call for a minute's silence. Folk behind me didn't hear it at all and carried on chatting right through it.
I missed the feeling of taking over the city from last year. The sight of a column of cyclists right down the Royal Mile was hugely impressive: this year with it being split up, the ride itself lacked atmosphere somewhat. Also folk were going a lot faster, which may be more 'natural' but meant the procession seemed over in a flash compared to the long time waiting in the Meadows. I realise this was at the behest of the police/council, but splitting into batches kind of spolied the procession I think.
On the plus side it seemed there were more cyclists this time around, at least at the Meadows: when we got to parly I think there were actually fewer than last time. Maybe some just went home/continued on elsewhere; maybe folk just spread out on the grass a bit more, but it seemed like fewer there for the speeches.
Also with a couple of exceptions all the people I spoke to in the queue at the Meadows had not been to PoP last year: this shows the publicity is working and it's not just the usual suspects plus their friends turning up. A couple of folk mentioned they had seen PoP propaganda chalked on Portobello Prom? Worth doing stuff like that again...
Oh and the PA was a lot better than last time. Thanks Andrew Cyclist Charitable Trust.
As for the political impact of PoP this year, I had plenty of time to mull that over yesterday while cycling around the Scottish countryside. One thing that really struck me yesterday is that once I left Edinburgh, I saw very few cyclists. Nearly all the cyclists I did see in the countryside were 'roadies': lycra, helmets, club jerseys, drop handlebars, no mudguards. Save for some principal routes, many of the roads, even 'A' roads were remarkably quiet too outside peak hours (except dual carriageways: A90 very busy and A9 too).
Why do I mention this? It made me think about the perspective of people in areas outwith the main cities regarding cycling. If my unscientific sample on a sweltering day means anything, what they see are pedominantly 'road warriors'/lycra louts, cycling fast; plus the odd older bloke or lady on an old 3-speed or hybrid cycling for local transport. Everyone else drives, save for a few, mostly women and young people, who get the bus (again based on the folk waiting at bus stops in places like Dollar, Crieff, and Ladybank).
The SNP core vote comes from just such places, predominantly but not exclusively in the north and north east. For these communities cycling is essentially an irrelevance: mainly a leisure activity for enthusiasts or tourists; something for kids before they can drive; with just a few local adult cyclists pootling around for transport.
I think the SNP's position on cycling, which 'we' find so mystifying, can be explained by looking to the communities where their core vote comes from. These are the people they need to 'buy off' in order to retain their support. Ultimately, 'we' may all be voters but the SNP has I suspect calculated that they can afford to ignore certain groups who lie outside their core support. The cycling lobby is one of those groups largely ignored, simply because 'we' are just not big enough, and too 'urban' to matter to the SNP.
Despite the assertions by Sarah Boyack and Alison Johnstone that cycling is not party political, alas I think this is not really true. The Green party, and to some extent Labour, see political advantage in taking up cudgels on behalf of cyclists. The SNP, by and large, seem to think otherwise, Edinburgh council notwithstanding and perhaps the exception that proves the rule. As for Cllr Rose, he's a well known cycling enthusiast but Conservative policies when in power are highly whimsical when it comes to cycling.
I do think demonstrations like PoP are really important, they have helped to garner support from opposition politicians across several parties, and from the more sympathetic minority in the SNP. It has helped to galvanise and mobilise many ordinary cyclists who perhaps may not have considered themselves as 'political' beforehand. I hope I'm wrong, but my feeling is that PoP will not have much significant impact on central government policy in the short term. It will perhaps have a greater impact in Edinburgh at council level.
I think if PoP was much, much bigger then it would be more difficult to ignore. Think 10,000 cyclists. 20,000. Reaching out to all the cyclists in Edinburgh who had something else to do on Sunday, or who didn't know about PoP, would be a start.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I must admit to being slightly surprised by the number of cyclists I saw on the day evidently not going to the PoP: A lot of scope for more recruits IMHO.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Oh I ought to add that on Sunday I travelled by train from Inverkeithing getting into Waverley about 40 minutes before PoP started. I don't remember seeing any bikes on the train at all. Either those that were coming to PoP from Fife all cycled in, or they came earlier, or there's more work to do reaching cyclists outside Edinburgh.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Aww @uberuce such a recommendation. I think I get as much back too - cuddle therapy works both ways, and it was nice to have such huggable people around.
Now if there had been someone doing massage, I could certainly have used that when I arrived around 13.30 at the Cafe on Jawbone Walk, but I'd recovered by 15.00 - that old A8 has the roughest surfaces, especially when you are slogging up to the 292m summit by Kirk o'Shotts - still the downhill in to Harthill was a pleasant lift after that. With such a huge road width (and verges for more), why there is not a smooth strip laid and made fit for cycling I cannot understand.
One point for POP3 Can we get Scotrail (or one of the other TOC's) to sponsor the issue of ACME Thunderer whistles that can give a powerful and authoritative blast when you need to grab people's attention
Posted 11 years ago # -
One thing that struck me, and which I think contributed to lack of atmosphere, was the lack of music.
Last year I remember bikes with speakers rigged to them.
This year I was thinking of bringing my Ukulele, but I thought it would've been drowned out by all the other sounds - perhaps I was wrong?
Anyway, next year it might be good to have some guitarists, and/or the 'Whisky Fools Ride' lot and maybe even the Brazilllian Samba drummers, or steel drummers etc to liven things up.
Posted 11 years ago # -
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My only niggle about the day was that once we had arrived at the Scottish Parliament and listened to the speeches there was no traffic free route back to the Meadows. I wasn’t confident to take the twins on the busy roads back through town and so pedalled back myself to pick up the car. Perhaps next year a return route can be made traffic free too."
Posted 11 years ago # -
That last point is rather ironic as there's a shared use path up by Queen's Drive right opposite the parly. That would have got the Sketcher back at least part of the way. Maybe just a question of giving out more information? Or does PoP need organised exit rides too next year?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I did post suggestions for that route back to the Meadows. And encouraged people to ride in groups.
Personally, I also feel that the cowgate route (which I recommended for those heading west) is fine if riding in a convoy. I rode it twice. Once around 7pm in a large group with a six-year old. We did not feel threatened, although that was in part because of minimoth and lionfishy providing excellent cover. Double trailers also excellent at stopping cars in their tracks!
The second-time with EddieD, around 8pm, we only once had a car behind us, and rode side by side all the way.
But, yes, if people not used to having kids on the road, then they will find it nerve-wracking.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Queen's Drive was closed to cars which was rather nice. There were lots of cyclists heading from the top of QD back to the centre of town so weight of numbers helped (although I still got grief off a WMV - see above somewhere).
Posted 11 years ago # -
more whistles is definitely on the cards for next year - helps to let people know when the silence starts - we also really didn't actually have enough marshals. We sort of forgot that we had to also let everyone know what was going on - when you're on it day to day you forget that everyone might not read everything you put out there! Thanks for the input @crowriver. Please fill out the survey on the site to feedback also!
Posted 11 years ago # -
One thing I noticed was that the Police motorbikes set the pace - cyclists as a rule don't like to be left behind, and thost that could streaked off after the motorbikes, which left those who couldn't keep up trickling through afterwards, leading the event to look a little thin - if we can get the younger folk to lead off, we should try not to over take them
Posted 11 years ago # -
Re. the thoughts on this year's Parliament gathering being smaller, here are a few comparison shots, this year's against last year's:
They look broadly similar to me; of course it may not be a fair comparison depending on when the pics were taken.
2013:
Parliamentary by blackpuddinonnabike, on Flickr
Gathered by blackpuddinonnabike, on FlickrLast year:
DSC00813 by peoples_republic_of_leith, on FlickrPosted 11 years ago # -
From above I expected the finish area to be a sea of people - there were definitely loads of folk who were bypassing any speeches and so on at the end and just cyclign off.
I think in part the weather played a role here. Last year was a glorious day, and so the end had a bit of a carnival feel. This time it was a little more... political. I think the balance has to be found - it's a political thing (unintentionally, but simply naturally); but I agree, some music at the end, maybe stuff brought for the kids to wave or make a noise with (vuvuzelas anyone?). I asked the hot dog guys if they were coming to the end, but I think they'd need special permission to sell down there, so weren't. That kind of thing would help to - turn the end into an event in its own right, rather than 'listen to some speeches then disperse'.
How about (and this would be a logistical nightmare I think) on the bigger grass area behind the palace, having a 'Cycle Fayre' or something similar timed for the end of the ride? Stalls and games and maybe even a bike jumble. This in turn might lead to more people attending PoP itself - folk who would go to the fayre and think, we'll I'll do the ride beforehand as well.
Posted 11 years ago # -
From my point of view:
Great afternoon. I hope the politicians are taking note! Thanks to everyone who's worked so hard to make it happen.
Thanks to Innertube for organising the feeder ride from five-ways junction. I'm just sorry I didn't know about it earlier, or I would have tried to muster more folk from Flora Stevenson school to join in. I'm not confident/experienced enough to lead a ride all the way, but I would have considered organising one from Flora's/Broughton High to meet up with the feeder ride on the bike path.
I was one of the people going at speed down the royal mile, but only because my 10 year old had taken off at speed and I needed to catch him up. It seems difficult to create the atmosphere you can get on a march on a bike. I ended up singing 'Daisy, Daisy ... ' (I was on a tandem with my daughter), but suggestions on how to decorate bikes, or how to try and get the message across would be useful in future. It was only afterwards I thought that we could have used the usual refrain of "What do we want?" "Safer cycling" "When do we want it?" "Now" as we went along. Some bystanders seemed to think we were in a race and were encouraging us along with "Well done" and "You're doing great" sort of comments. How about 'PoP up your bike' workshops at places like Ocean Terminal, Cameron Toll etc on the Saturday where posters, balloons, windmills, streamers, sticks and tape and advice on how to attach them safely could be available. It would help raise awareness of the ride but would need volunteers. But perhaps there are those who could spare a well defined afternoon but don't want to volunteer for general organising help.
Communicating with everyone in the meadows was a problem. We were quite close to the front (second wave, I think) but still were not sure when the minute's silence was. How about something happening in the middle of the grass? Perhaps balloon's released at the start of the minute representing cyclists killed or seriously injured on Scotland's roads in the past year?
Many people I spoke to would have loved to come, but were away for the Victoria Weekend. I know it's a busy time of year, with lots of cycling/ other events on but this is the longest weekend off school this term (for council schools, but that represents a lot of people) and lots of families, particularly active ones, are away. We would have been if it hadn't been for PoP. Please can we avoid this weekend in future?
Exit rides would be great too. I've been trying to think of a suitable name for the opposite of a feeder ride!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Excellent suggestions - love the idea of a 'POP' your bike session beforehand! Also releasing balloons or similar for the minute's silence (sadly our helium cannister turned out to be empty or we might have done this accidentally anyway)
Posted 11 years ago # -
"I've been trying to think of a suitable name for the opposite of a feeder ride!"
Emesis ride?
Drainer ride?Marshals with radios relaying the intial whistle (or, if there aren't enough radios left after they've been taken out to the various on-route marshalling-points, a marshal cascade spaced within whistleshot of each other) would fix the notification issue. Or just make some flags out of something highly-visible, which cyclists ought to be able to get their hands on.
Posted 11 years ago # -
yes. balloon release wonderful idea (but possibly not condoned for environmental reasons).
I think what we probably need to do is work out how long everything will take and then say 'everyone who wants to ride back to X together meet at this point'. I sort of tried to suggest that people might do this, but perhaps we need to ask feeder ride leaders to take it more seriously.
It is tricky when we don't know exactly how long everything will take. Also difficult to describe possible meeting places at Holyrood.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Also difficult to describe possible meeting places at Holyrood."
Rather than attempting to describe them in words relative to the vaguely leafy shapes of the mounds and paths, Big Flags on Long Poles at the re-assembly points? When the speeches finish, a quick announcement could describe the various drainer rides' routes and destinations. A few wee signs on easels could display this for perusal during the milling-about period.
Posted 11 years ago # -
How about 'return' rides? Easier to understand than 'drainer' and more positive than 'exit'.
The flags could actually be attached to feeder/return ride leader's bikes, with the departure/destination points written/embroidered/painted on them?
All a bit like trains/buses really. Simple when you think about it.
Posted 11 years ago # -
feeder rides have (for various reasons) been self-organising and autonomous. If someone would like to take on job of co-ordinator and sort some stuff like this, I would be *delighted*
thanks!
Posted 11 years ago # -
balloon release wonderful idea (but possibly not condoned for environmental reasons)
Yes, I hesitated to suggest it because of helium issue especially. Has anyone got any homing doves?
Posted 11 years ago # -
As a marshal, I was conscious that I needed to be on post for the first folk setting off, if for nothing else than chaining my bike up and being ready to minimise any potential pedestrian conflict from the start.
So whilst I walked the line until about 14:55 explaining about the minute's silence at 15:00 followed by the minute's bell ringing, I think it'd be useful next year to have several informed and strategically placed individuals throughout the line (not marshals) also with whistles so that the message carried effectively and quickly all the way to the very last in the line.
I think I missed the vast majority of the atmosphere on the ride itself so have been interested to read the feedback from those who participated. Last year was so full of noises, music (ad hoc refrains of Queen's Bicycle Race anyone?) - this year felt far more sombre. I was one of the marshals encouraging the wee ones who were struggling up the long slog to Doctor's pub, I got a wide grin back from pretty much every single one of them.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Signalling the minute's silence is something we just flat-out didn't think about, which is remiss of us since it was a problem last year.
Perhaps our bike lights could be part of it? Everyone turns them on at 3.00 for the minute's silence. A cluster of folk with burly lights could stand on the outside of the trees near the start, basically behind where the 8-Freight and bakery was, and point them south. They'll be close enough to the head to get the message and light up, which will be instantly visible to almost everyone, and a few folk spread out in the grass ought to relay to the rest within seconds.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Innovative idea, Bruce. Though from experience with non-audio cues at Guides, I know people simply don't pay attention quick enough elsewhere if they're engaged in conversation. I can often be stood for over a minute waiting for the girls to notice my hand is up to signal they need to stop filling the hall with hot air and nonsense.
Something short, sharp, direct?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I was parent helper at brownies tonight. Very mellow compared with cubs / scouts. Possibly a very attentive troop but they were alert to the hand.
Put minute silence at 15.00 on flyer?
Was singing on the ride, still think better than last year on all points. No aggro from cars, police helpful, PA louder, more participants overall, good atmosphere.
Good effort, much appreciated.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This was my first year at PoP and I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you to all who had a part in organising it!
I was completely unaware of any minute silence/bell ringing going on. Any reason not to have the silence at the park end? So that it can be announced over the speaker system? I could hear the speakers fine when they actually held the microphone properly! Dont know if it would be qorth getting some food vendors invloved next year, like Oink etc, make more of an event of the parlament bit? Lastly, I saw some truly appalling cycling on my journey home (t junction up from meadows past commy all the cyclists just crammed in left of the lwft turning cars, in fact, gridlocked the whole blooming junction as an example) which just seemed to draw the wrong sort of attention to us cyclists completely. So 'opposite to feeder rides' would be good, or at least an announcement for people to be conciderate, savy cyclists on their journey home!
Posted 11 years ago # -
The set up at the start of PoP makes it very difficult to communicate with everyone, as the crowd is stretched out in a reasonably thin line over about half a mile. Whistles, bells, fireworks etc. are unlikely to help indicate the start of any silence as most people won't know what they signify. Unless we can get hold of a town cryer, the easiest solution I can think of would be to have roving marshals with megaphones announcing the silence/bell ringing along the line in the 10 or 15 minutes before it happens.
I like the idea of return rides, but can see problems in deciding when they should leave, where people should meet and getting people safely away in large groups if the roads are open to general traffic.
While stuff like stalls, food etc. are a matter for the PoP organisers. I personally think they would detract from the fact PoP is a demonstration.
Posted 11 years ago # -
While stuff like stalls, food etc. are a matter for the PoP organisers. I personally think they would detract from the fact PoP is a demonstration.
True. I didn't think of this. Then again, the whole thing did not really feel like a demonstration to me. Mainly because it was on a Sunday and everybody was so spread out.
Posted 11 years ago # -
What's the minute's silence actually for? To remember cyclists who have been killed, specifically or more generally?
There is an argument that minute silences have lost some of their potency in recent years due to overuse, so perhaps sticking to the bell ringing as a way or remembering lost cyclists as well as celebrating a more positive outlook would work better.I knew about the minutes silence but somehow missed it, as did everyone standing around me. We managed the bells OK. We were only about 1/3 of the way down MMW so not that far out of it.
Posted 11 years ago #
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