CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.

PoP2 - thoughts

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  1. I think the minute silence (for all cyclists who have died on our roads in the last year) is actually quite powerful in this instance - out in the open (i.e. not confied within a stadium) it's weird the hush that descends, and even pedestrians walking by stopped talking. I lead it last year (had a better whistle ;) ) and it felt quite emotional - but there was the same issue of the message not getting down the line.

    It is very very easily rectified in one of two ways, alreadty mentioned in this thread. Both need perhaps a little more publicity of the silence before it takes place.

    1. People with whistles strategically located down the line. Would take about 15 seconds for the message to get all the way.

    2. The balloons idea - I like this quite a lot, but probably needs even more publicity beforehand than a whistle being blown.

    That's really it, doesn't need to be overcomplicated with extra walkie-talkies or so on. 6 degrees of separation probably means three marshalls walking the line 10 minutes before the silence will come on someone they know willing to blow a whistle every 50 yards or so, and while handing it over reminding the cyclists around there about the silence. Those marshalls then take up the end position ensuring the silence is knwon right to the very end, and they're in place for marshalling the back of the ride.

    (and the silence is even more powerful when backed up by that bell ringing afterwards, the contrast makes it so potent - I'm not sure just bell ringing would have quite the same message).

    Just my tuppenceworth.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. bdellar
    Member

    I knew about the minutes silence, but we were still waiting for it when the ride started moving. We were down the bottom of MMW.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. sallyhinch
    Member

    Have to try and remember all this for next year (if there is one). Realistically, we'd have to resign ourselves to not getting our whistles back ...

    I think if we did do the balloons thing, and put it in a press release, it would get picked up so maybe more people would know about it. Although if I've learned anything from the past 4 months it's that you can put a message out a million different ways and there will still be some people who it completely passes by...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    Then again, the whole thing did not really feel like a demonstration to me. Mainly because it was on a Sunday and everybody was so spread out.

    This is the real problem. The essence, and potency of the demonstration has been managed away by the police and the council.

    If there is one thing I would ask for if PoP happens next year, it's that whoever is negotiating with the authorities gets more assertive about the procession's timing and not letting it be broken up so much.

    A Saturday is arguably better, as long as no football/rugby/marathon/Skyride to contend with. If the procession must be broken up then fewer, larger, bunches of cyclists would have more impact.

    Perhaps it was different in the more carnivalesque front batch, I was in the last batch which was so thinly spread it felt rhetorically very much like a whimper rather than a rallying cry.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. SRD
    Moderator

    "Realistically, we'd have to resign ourselves to not getting our whistles back ..."

    Couldn't some marshals have whistles and be stationed along the line, but co-ordinate by walkie-talkie? plenty of time then for them to resume positions at front if needed?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. Charterhall
    Member

  7. Two Tired
    Member

    Please, no balloons !

    I second this!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. Arellcat
    Moderator

  9. cb
    Member

    Yeah, I'd oppose balloons on both those points too.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. bdellar
    Member

    There are definitely more cyclists we could reach, even just in Edinburgh. There folk behind me in the Meadows were at home when they saw lots of bikes go past their window. They asked what was going on, and then jumped on their bikes to join in. At a guess, they were students.

    Was much advertising done in the Uni? Were the unions on board?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. SRD
    Moderator

    @bdellar we tried. but challenging unless you have a lot more time than me. and preferably people inside each of the Unis. UoE got well postered, with institutional support and efforts by staff and students. I tried to make contact with other unis, but little take up that i know of. was pretty much rebuffed by those who i asked to leaflet or poster.

    but even that's just edinburgh!

    another job that needs starting early next year - outreach. volunteers?

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. Cyclist
    Member

    Regarding the minute's silence, an option would be to hold it at Holyrood and communicate it to the assembled masses via the PA.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. tarmac jockey
    Member

    Got around to uploading the photos I took on the day. http://www.flickr.com/photos/revstar/

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. Focus
    Member

    Add me to the anti-balloon brigade. As cyclists, we do like to remind everyone of our green credentials and littering the city and countryside with balloons is not exactly promoting that. In the past, it would have been a great idea as it makes an impact on the day, but we are more environmentally aware these days. You'd probably even get the odd gas-guzzler moaning about it too. The irony!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. Focus
    Member

    @ tarmac jockey

    Please tell me the mother walking with her pram on the cycle side of the path in image 9026 was either part of PoP2 (though she should still have stayed on the left), because otherwise just what did she think she was doing?!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. Focus
    Member

    Deleted - wrong thread!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. Consider myself reprimanded on the balloons (was aware of chinese lanterns being a problem due to the wire frames, hadn't really considered/known that balloons were just as bad).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. lionfish
    Member

    [off topic] "Brightly coloured helium balloons are also a terrible waste of helium." -- seconded! I used an MRI scanner for my PhD experiments. During my PhD another scanner (an MEG) in the same lab was shutdown as the helium deliveries were restricted due to the global shortage.

    (To be honest the design of the MEG was also a big waste of helium - most MRI scanners now "recycle" the helium, the MEG seemed to let a lot of it boil off :/ )

    [on topic] I'm afraid we all talked through the minute silence without realising it had started. The bells (a wave of bells starting at the top of MMW and moving down) at the end told us we missed it! Sorry :/ We were waiting for some sign or something! I think in general we need a way of compacting the crowd and keeping the density up. Especially on the bike ride itself. The people at the front of each 'wave' need to cycle slowly and the marshals need to tell everyone to slow down (not speed up!). I couldn't really see the whole process though, and I'm sure there's reasons for things being they way they were! If there hadn't been a mega-rain the day before maybe we could have stood in a concentrated crowd on the grass? (focused on the cross-roads).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. EddieD
    Member

    {even further of topic} - I know helium is getting rare, but the day they had to shut down the LHC and release /tonnes/ of helium - it must have been the most fun place to work for half an hour - 300 mickey mouses.....

    Add me to the anti balloon brigade

    {Back on topic} We will almost certainly be released in groups again, I think that we need to work out a method of keeping the groups bunched, even if it means putting a line of prams at the front of each group. And ignoring the police cyclists trying to get us to hurry up. I'm as guilty as just about any other cyclist in my ambition to be at the front...it's just that there are times when we need to stick together.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. neddie
    Member

    Please, no balloons !
    http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232713930874&mode=prd

    I wonder what the RSPCA have to say about the millions of birds & animals that are injured, killed, or die an agonising slow death after being hit by cars?

    Perhaps they should issue a brochure advising people to stop driving.

    Oh wait, that's not a bad idea...

    Also, I' believe that keeping the speed down while driving massively reduces the chance of hitting an animal.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    Massive tawny old spread all across the Lang Whang the other night, very sad

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. Smudge
    Member

    Interesting ideas, although I also help with Guides I hadn't considered the hand raising option, if it were mentioned in the publicity/posters it could/would spread down the line very quickly and could be quite effective. (It is on the whole a very attentive and disciplined group compared to the average gaggle of excited Guides!)
    Less intrusive than whistles imo.

    As to radios, remember that you don't *have* to rent pro walkie-talkies, PMR is reasonably effective over the sort of short distances we're dealing with, and CB is now both effective and unlicenced and is very lightly used.

    Another (cheaper) option is to ask raynet for volunteers to run a net for you, or trawl the PoP masses for radio hams in the pre-publicity.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "Another (cheaper) option is"

    Txt.

    Must be easy to get the mobile numbers from a number of people intending to attend and organise some to be spread through the crowd (+ a few marshalls).

    2 minute warning txt, 1 min.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. sallyhinch
    Member

    When you get a lot of people and their mobile phones together in one place, the network often overloads. I wouldn't rely on text messages going through in real time.

    Hearing you loud and clear on the balloons. We have banished all thought of them from our heads.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. Instography
    Member

    Do the minute's silence at the Parliament. Make that the core of the "demo" - the whole point of it. We've done it twice asking for infrastructure. We shouldn't ask a third time.

    Maybe we should start being there to commemorate the people that they allowed to die or be seriously injured that year, and in the previous years. If Magnatom wants to be angry, make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. MeepMeep
    Member

    I'm interested to know who was asking cyclists to speed up.

    I was telling those on bikes to carry on because I had asked pedestrians to wait and needed the waves of cyclists to flow. I had better visibility down Meadow Walk than those cycling up it so could anticipate gaps for pedestrians to cross without the possibility of causing a cartoon-like pile up that was created by letting one wizened nice old lady cross.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. fimm
    Member

    I don't recall the exact words "speed up" but we were certainly being encouraged to keep moving - coming off MMW and onto the bit of road there was one place, IIRC.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. amir
    Member

    "Do the minute's silence at the Parliament. Make that the core of the "demo" - the whole point of it. We've done it twice asking for infrastructure. We shouldn't ask a third time.

    Maybe we should start being there to commemorate the people that they allowed to die or be seriously injured that year, and in the previous years. If Magnatom wants to be angry, make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one. "

    I kind of agree with this - but on the other hand we are also trying to encourage politicians and the wider public to see cycling as a sensible and safe form of transport. This is difficult if the focus is on death. The biggest factor in improving safety will be a much greater proportion of the population cycling regularly.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. Calum
    Member

    "make it an angry ride not a pleading and compliant one"

    It was great when that Wheelhouse character was booed. He didn't like that. I'd have been interested to see the kind of reception our beloved Keith would have received if he had bothered to turn up. I suspect it would not have been a positive one.

    "The biggest factor in improving safety will be a much greater proportion of the population cycling regularly"

    I don't agree with that. I think that if we actually managed to convince thousands of kids to start cycling to school next week they would all be killed. With some exceptions, the conditions are very poor and children cannot possibly be expected to deal with it. They can't and won't and don't. We have had decades of "encouraging" a wider demographic to take up cycling and it has amounted to absolutely nothing because nobody wants to do it on streets choked with cars. The infrastructure needs to come first.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    amir and CalumCookable, I think you are both right. These arguments are used selectively depending on the intended audience. To government we say the roads are crazy dangerous and we need more infrastructure, to families we shout come on in the water's lovely. Cycle promotion money would be better spent subsidising existing cyclists to encourage them to keep going. Especially families trying to scrape together the cost of bikes for children who grow out of them every couple of years. Maybe more Climate Challenge funding to places like the Bike Station. NB if BS are reading this there are a couple of dozen kids bikes waiting to be collected from the East Lothian recycling depot.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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