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Dalmeny Residents & Staff already p*ssed off at cyclists

(42 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by DaveC
  • Latest reply from chdot
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12

  1. DaveC
    Member

    So two days into the closure of the A90 path for upgrading and it appears SOME Dalmeny Staff and residents are already getting annoyed at cyclist using Lord Rosebury's roads.

    As we cycled up the steep hill towards the Burnshot jundtion, we could hear a vehical coming towards us over the crest. We were all in to the left but this silver Nissan X-Trail type pickup just barrelled along the middle of the single track road past us. Someone must have called something out, as at the foot of the hill we heard tyres grinding on the tarmac as the driver braked heavily in the wet and a loud winey noise as he reversed at full speed back up the hill to confront us.

    Apparently the estate is owned by Lord Rosebery and we don't have 'Right Of Way', we just have 'access'. I asked what his problem was, and he reiterated his line. I suggested that should be be unhappy that he should complain to Lord Rosebery and have the detour rerouted/closed, at which point he appeared to have lost interest, having made his point, and roared off down the road.

    So folks, if riding through the Dalmeny estate, take care!!

    I should add that just 2 mins before, lower down, a very kindely lady in her aged turquoise Freelander actually half drove off the road while she passed us, giving us over half the carrage way. She also gave us a cheery smile and wave. So they are not all grumpy, just the typical newer Mahoosive 4x4 drivers.

    I have chatted to someone a couple of times in the past, who I took to be the estate manager before. He wore smart dress, (tweeds, shirt, well spoken) and I rode along side as he was on his Dawes tourer. He turned off into the back of the big house saying this was his place of work. I wonder if I should let him know some road users are so rude?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    Hope it wasn't a member of staff - not really a good advert.

    "Dalmeny Estate is now on Route 76 the Round the Forth Cycling Route"

    http://www.dalmeny.co.uk/estate/rosebery_estate_news.htm

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Roseberry is in his 80s according to Wikipedia, so I assume it wasn't him. Probably some member of the estate or family with an inflated sense of right / priveledge / entitlement.

    Dalmeny estate has a better reputation for providing access than their neighbours over at Hopetoun.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. DaveC
    Member

    I have emailed the estate, Sustrans, Transport Scotland and my local MSP

    Dear Dalmeny estate,

    First thanks for providing a quiet detour route through the Dalmeny estate, its a breath of fresh air (literally) as we cycle through the estate avoiding the A90 path which is being upgraded.

    I should like to point out that 2 days into the detour some vehical users of the Dalmeny estate are not taking the safety of other road users as seriously as one would expect. This morning whilst cycling up the steep hill (in single file on the left) towards the Burnshot junction entrance to the estate, a large silver pickup (Nissan X-Trail??) came barrelling along the middle of the single track road. One of the four cyclists must have called something out, as we heard the tyres screech to a halt and the loud whine of the engine as it reversed at speed up the hill back to us. The driver most irrate was at pains to pont out we have 'no right of way' and were only allowed onto the estate through kind permission of Lord Rosebery. I pointed out I was just a users (I had not made any comment and was confussed as to why he was so angry), and that if he was not happy with cyclists using the tarmac detour he should complain to Lord Rosebery and have the detour removed or rerouted. At this point he lost interest and roared off. Shorty after one of the other cyclists said he had made the comment 'slow down' as the driver had passed us originally, which would explain the actions of the driver

    I'm now conserned for the safety of other detour users who may not know to look out for this rude driver who appears to have no concern for the safety of more vunerable road users! This is such a shame as the lady driver of an older Turquoise Landrover not 2 minutes eariler had slowed down without prompting and had driven half off the road to allow us plenty of safe passing room. We greated her with a cheery wave and a smile, as did she back to us. Perhaps we can nip this in the bud?

    I have copied Transport Scotland, Sustrans and also my MSP (Helen Eadie).

    Yours faithfully,
    ...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "
    Have passed to Factor who has copied to Heads of Departments. We don't recognise the vehicles or the people mentioned in the report but will certainly look into it.

    Regards

    Mrs

    Administrator

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Shame, hopefully there won't be too many of these encounters. Most of the vehicles I have encountered on the estate have given plenty of room, one even pulled in to let me past on the off tarmac section.

    I have made a point of saying 'evening' to anyone I pass on the way home. It was obvious when the A90 path closed as I started spotting cyclists in on the estate on Thursday evening, until then I pretty much had it to myself.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. EddieD
    Member

    I go across the estate a lot (an evening cuppa at Hound Point is really lovely), and I've never had a problem - maybe some visiting hoorays or something

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. DaveC
    Member

    Its because all cycle traffic has been routed through the estate. Ocals obviously taking exception to the increase in cycle traffic.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. panyagua
    Member

    Thanks for posting DaveC and for emailing the estate etc. I think I encountered the same vehicle last Thursday evening, as I was approaching the 'widow maker' (as it's called on Strava). He was coming down the hill towards me, but made no effort to slow down and I had to tuck right into the left as he whizzed past. So unfortunately looks as though this character is not just a one-off user.

    BTW I've not posted before so I'll PM you so you can match my user name to my real one!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. cc
    Member

    Perhaps if someone could manage to get the reg number of Angry Nissan and pass it to the Dalmeny Estate they could take action of some sort?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. DaveC
    Member

    Yeh I came away thinking I should have got the number... I have plenty of opportunity to see it again over the next 7.5 weeks!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. DaveC
    Member

    Well positive response from Transport Scotland (who are the cheque book holders), directing me to the Edinburgh Council representitive.

    I have heard nothing back from Dalmeny Estates. chdot, you appear to have had some response?? which you posted a snippit of above? Can you let me know (pm or public) if you also contacted Dalmeny Estate directly yourself please, as they may assume by emailing you, (and not me) they consider a response to my email not nessessary?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Focus
    Member

    Generally speaking, those who I interpret as working on the estate are sensible and sometimes even polite towards me when I cycle thorough. I sometimes encounter one of the farmers on his quad bike with his dog and we exchange a wave and a greeting. I did once have a problem with an employee driving a Land Rover IIRC when he wanted to heard some pheasants on the steepest part of the Widow Maker. He expected me to stop on the slope and blocked my path when he could easily have let me slip past without disturbing the birds, considering the speed I'd (not) be doing going uphill. He wasn't pleased when I managed it but that's the only such incident I've had.

    Visitors on the other hand are a mixed bunch and a number disobey the 20mph signs. No, they won't be enforceable by law but they are there for a reason, and driving at 30+ in the middle of the road when there is a bike in front of you is dumb. If they want to go faster when the road is clear (and no animals are there), fine - I often go faster down the 'maker myself when I can see the route is entirely clear. Thankfully it's not very often that happens and most are more sensible. It's still much safer in the estate than on the open road, by a long way.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Focus
    Member

    Just to add, I'm not sure it's wise to suggest to someone they should complain and have the route changed. As it's private land wouldn't there be a risk of that actually happening and we lose part of the NCN?

    I'm not sure how it all works as the estate is part of the Inventory of Gardens and Designed Landscapes in Scotland. Whether that means the government is able to enforce public access or not, I'm unsure. The estate certainly blocks access to "unauthorised motor vehicles" when they wish to, so maybe could do the same to cyclists?

    Somebody up on access law in Scotland would need to answer that one.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. minus six
    Member

    Just back from Deutschland today, and having keenly followed this thread while over there, i thought i'd try out the fancy new diversion on my way back to the Kingdom.

    What immediately became apparent were the dozens of big yellow and black signs proclaiming:

    BEWARE LOCAL ESTATE TRAFFIC

    It certainly put me in mind of being in a safari park.. watch out for exotic wild dangerous creatures roaming about.

    So.. where be the signs advising the "local estate traffic" to slow down around a temporary influx of vulnerable road users?

    Well... there are none. And so the very same signs act as a major enabler.

    What these signs inadvertently say to the "local estate traffic" is this:

    Just put your foot down, the cyclists will just have take their chances and get out of your way, they've been warned.

    I've no doubt at all that these signs are the reason i was passed at speed by a land rover with a big trailer, or the previous silver nissan shenanigans experienced by others.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. Focus
    Member

    Or maybe, just maybe*, the estate workers have been made aware of the situation and shouldn't need signage? The visitors on the other hand certainly would benefit from reminding, but then they should be warned of being aware of cyclists at all times!

    (* I have no idea if they were specifically informed).

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. minus six
    Member

    So cyclists need reminding with a BEWARE sign every few yards, but local estate workers, who might have been advised something, somewhere, at sometime, themselves need no reminding whatsoever of their obligations around vulnerable road users?

    Just who is it that needs to BEWARE?

    Who is likely to cause damage in a collision?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. Focus
    Member

    You're looking for a disagreement where none exists. All I'm saying is that those who work on the estate should already know and be aware of the fact cyclists use the road in the estate and a simple update that the numbers will increase during the path closure ought to suffice.

    On the other hand, there will be an increase in cyclists using the estate for the first time so they clearly should have helpful warnings of the potential danger.

    I'm getting the feeling that had the signage been warning of cyclists, and not about warning of vehicles, nobody would have batted an eyelid even though that would only have addressed one side of things too.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. minus six
    Member

    Perhaps you miss my point, focus.

    Some motorists are currently behaving inappropriately around vulnerable road users on the estate.

    Operational conditions are such that repeated signage only advises one class of road user to beware of the other.

    I'm stating that this skewed imbalance is liable to further enable the inappropriate behaviour.

    You suggest that a simple update ought to suffice, and they shouldn't need signage, but that is irrelevant to what is actually happening.

    I've no history of using the interior of the estate myself, but over a few years passing by, i've had various altercations at the entrance junctions, where motorists either emerging from the estate or going into it, have cut me up aggressively, when i've got right of way out on the main road.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. Focus
    Member

    I didn't come here for the argument, 5 minutes or full half hour. May I refer you to http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->

    [+] Embed the video | Room 12A?" target="_blank">Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "

    dozens of big yellow and black signs proclaiming:

    BEWARE LOCAL ESTATE TRAFFIC

    "

    How long have they been there?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. minus six
    Member

    You got yourself into it, son.

    You reckon the estate workers shouldn't need signage.

    They obviously do.

    A cheap youtube embed doesn't change that.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. minus six
    Member

    How long have they been there?

    dunno, i only went through today, not been before.

    admittedly i'm exaggerating about "dozens", but there's more than half a dozen.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. wingpig
    Member

    Perhaps some of the estate workers are aware that some of the vehicle-using estate workers are likely to start getting unnecessarily stroppy about the temporarily-increased volume of cyclists and are kindly warning the temporarily-increased volume of cyclists to not expect to be able to trundle about their business without being unnecessarily stropped at.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. Instography
    Member

    How naive of me. I read them as a truncated version of something along the lines of, "hey all you new people who've never been here before, welcome but bear in mind that this is a working farm and when you come shooting down that big joyous hill there might be estate vehicles around". But I might be wrong. They might well be a subtle nod and wink to drivers that they can flatten anyone who gets in their way.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Smudge
    Member

    +1 for Insto's interpretation.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. DaveC
    Member

    The signs appeared over the weekdend as the diversion was in force from Monday 20th May.

    The signs are only on the main drag past the golf links, which is also part of the route of the 76 cycle path.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. PS
    Member

    Fair play to them. There is a drop to a blind left handed that it is very easy as a cyclist to hit 30mph on only to find a Land Rover / tractor / sheep coming the other way. Plenty of other opportunities for road users to be non-excellent to each other. No harm in warning cyclists to tek care on that or indeed any other section.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. Focus
    Member

    o_0

    I'm not your son.

    At no point did I say the estate workers didn't need signs. I said they shouldn't as they ought to be aware of the situation.

    And finally, I posted the video as a light-hearted way of ending the needless to-and-fro. Seems you don't share my particular sense of humour. Oh well.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. Focus
    Member

    wingpig, PS and possibly Instography (depending on the level of sarcasm in use!)

    I think you're seeing things from the same angle I am. There will be cyclists otherwise unaware of the traffic potential. Perhaps anyone who wishes signs for drivers should just ask the estate office to put some up. It maybe didn't occur to them, who knows?

    Posted 10 years ago #

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