CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Morrison Street Question

(22 posts)

  1. algo
    Member

    Hello,

    my first post here, and hoping to get some advice about how to navigate a tricky bit of road, particularly when busy. Sorry if this bit has already been discussed - I couldn't find reference to this bit but perhaps I have missed it.

    I often cycle back up Morrison Street towards Lothian road where I turn right towards the meadows, or alternatively from fountainbridge up Semple Street and then onto the same small stretch next to sainsbury's. The problem I have is that when it is busy I find it very hard to position myself in the correct lane since the boxjunction is often already full. I try to assume primary position when coming up morrison street and then join the queue in the appropriate lane - the leftmost of the two right hand turn lanes.

    I have found recently more often than not that filtering here is basically impossible due to there being little space, and I don't want to just wait on the box junction as then when the lights change you infuriate the cars waiting when the lights go green. Usually I have to resort to cycling along the straight ahead lane and then try to merge in at some later point but often this isn't possible and I find myself right next to the cars going past straight on. There is no ASL at the end here and when I've made my way to the front, which is often the only option, you are over the stop line and I have had a fair few angry close passes just after setting off if I'm seen to do this especially as you often can't use the bus lane when it's full of busses or parked vehicles.

    I am mainly writing this because I have recently had a lot of abuse from motorists who think I am riding dangerously, but I genuinely don't know what the right thing to do it at this point. Even taking primary position at the lights in the ASL just before this short stretch (by Sainsbury's). Despite what the motorists think I am not trying to be aggressive or reckless - I learnt a hard lesson about arguing with car drivers anyway a while ago.

    I hope I've explained ok where and why I'm having problems and I'd really appreciate any advice from the wiser city cyclists here.

    Many thanks in advance

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The Semple St to Morrison St to Lothian Road section is never much fun on a bike. I sometimes like to use this route from Torphichen St to get to the Meadows:

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5950113

    There's a bit of walking the bike to get to Rutland Square, and perhaps to get across the road out of Lochrin, but other than that it's almost traffic free.

    However, I do use the Morrison St box junction area quite often, and you have to take primary through there. If a motorist doesn't like it, that's just tough, but I have to admit I've tended not to receive abuse from drivers. The vehicles do like to stream out of Semple St and block the junction though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. allebong
    Member

    Hello and welcome. I think this is the junction you are talking about:

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=morrison+street+edinburgh&hl=en&ll=55.945819,-3.205874&spn=0.0012,0.003484&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs&hq=morrison+street&hnear=Edinburgh,+City+of+Edinburgh,+United+Kingdom&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=55.945819,-3.205874&panoid=g4fOskqEWsKIaGGDUjXnZw&cbp=12,82.63,,0,17.11

    I have to say that I don't use this particular junction much but I am familiar with the type and the problems they cause. My advice is to basically act like you're a car. Taking the primary early on is absolutely the right thing to be doing to establish yourself in traffic. Up to here you're doing exactly what I would.

    My own opinion, which you are free to disregard, is that trying to filter forward here is NOT a good decision. I am not the filtering type as I find whatever ground you gain by sliding between cars is lost again 10 seconds later when they overtake you. Plus the inherent danger if you get caught out between lines of cars as the lights change makes it not worth doing in most circumstances. If you can consider this from a drivers perspective, by both taking the primary and then filtering it seems like you're having your cake and eating it too, so to speak. If you stay firmly in the primary, don't filter and otherwise act like a car you usually get treated like a car. But if you then start filtering forward, especially at this sort of junction, then you've become yet another annoying cyclist weaving all over the place in between gaps. This is not for a second trying to justify anyone getting irate but again consider it from the other perspective: if you were driving at what is a difficult junction, would you really want a cyclist trying to squeeze down your side and get in front? Probably not.

    So, if I were in your position, I would sit it out in traffic and follow the car in front in the leftmost right-hand lane. Nobody can justifiably get angry then as the traffic will move exactly the same if there was a car in your place.

    I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh but you say you're not trying to be aggressive - which I do believe is your intention - and then seem to want to filter forward aggressively in tight traffic, which in my mind is a pretty aggressive move. I'm sure others here will have a different view on the matter but that's mine.

    Anyway, bad traffic aside, I hope you enjoy the community here.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. steveo
    Member

    I also completely avoid Morrison Street. In your position I'd swing left along Gardners Cresent at the end use the left path round the canal to get to Lower Gilmore Street. Left again takes you to the bad junction at the Kings but its not as bad as a snarled up Morrison St. Turn right at the kings and first left along Vallyefield street, at the end follow the shared use path to the meadows. Done.

    Thusly: Google Maps

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. SRD
    Moderator

    I think I'd follow Steveo's suggestion.

    I find Semple Street to Morrison Street to Bread street okay on Saturday mornings, but stressful otherwise. I don't think I'd want to try and make a right there. Straight ahead is basically okay though once you get off Semple Street.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. Morningsider
    Member

    I cycled Fountainbridge-Semple St-Bread Street as part of my commute for years. The best thing to do is to take primary position early (round about Evans Cycles) and then stay in lane, no filtering - it might be slower but is definitely safer. If you find the right turn from Morrison St to Lothian Road too hairy, then you could go straight on to Bread Street then hang a right by the Art College and then head towards the Meadows down Lauriston Gardens.

    I like Stevo's suggestion though - avoid the whole lot if you can.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. remberbuck
    Member

    Hi Algo,

    I follow your route most evenings, and generally find that provided I keep assertive then there is no problem. Like you I come up past the Conference Centre, and since the construction works have gione find no problem keeping to the inside, and then positioning myself at the lights to go between the straight ahead lane, and the two right turn lanes. Generally the Semple Street lights are at red, and I find it rare for drivers to crowd the ASL, and the line is clear

    If you follow this line then a smart start can get you all the way through to Lothian Road on current traffic light timings - you just go on and sweep right into the bus lane, with the great bonus that you can get all the way through the next two lights to the Meadows without any reds unless you get unlucky with the pedestrian crossings.

    Otherwise, I would still be happy to follow the same line, and stop at Lothian Road - there is enough room between the car stop line and the pedestrian crossing. Traffic can speed away when the green light goes, so I generally mount up and idle into the middle when the pedestrian crossing light across Lothian Road goes to red, pedalling once the lights go to green. The bus lane can be "busy" so I find the head start gives me maneouvre time.

    Maybe I've been lucky but I've not yet had doom moments at this part, although the occasional car in the straight ahead lane that cuts across to turn right provides variety ...

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. bruce_mcadam
    Member

    Morrison Street is terrible.

    If you are going from Haymarket towards Fountainbridge/canal/Lothian Road/Tolcross/Meadows area, then you can take an traffic free 'short'cut

    - Cross Dalry Road (jump on your bike when pedestrians are crossing in front of the taxi rank)
    - Turn left and ride up Dalry Place past the colony houses
    - Cut along the path to Morrison Crescent
    - Round Morrison Crescent, then onto path
    - Use the crossing to cross Western Approach Road
    - Up the zig-zag path (beside steps) to McEwan Square
    - Along the path/parking area by Brandfield Street to get to Fountainbridge

    Then either ride along Fountainbridge towards Lothian Road, or use the crossing to go up Gilmore Park to the canal.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. cb
    Member

    The wee un-named cut through between Fountainbridge and West Tollcross that Arellcat's route uses is pretty handy. I've used that a few times.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. algo
    Member

    Hello everyone,

    thanks very much for the great replies and suggestions. I think I didn't make myself clear on some things I'm afraid. The junction I'm talking about is the one before the one pictured - Semple street and Morrison street.

    I would always try to follow the traffic in lane, but my problem is that the box junction is often blocked and when I leave the ASL I have nowhere to go, but often the car behind wants to progress into the box junction.

    It seems I should try and check out the alternative routes that have been suggested and I will do that, or if I am going that way keep trying to stay in the lane and not filter, which is what I want to do, but I'm afraid I get a bit intimidated holding the traffic up before the box junction as I don't want to enter it and find myself in the way of the traffic coming from Semple street. I should say that I don't ever want to filter there, but because of cowardess and incompetence on my part have done so to get out of the way (e.g. if the right hand of the two lanes is open but the left one isn't, and the car behind wants to take that one).

    Thanks very much for all the suggestions - sorry if I came across as an aggressive cyclist - that is the last thing I want. In general I find in Edinburgh the understanding given to me my car drivers (and particularly lothian buses) is excellent and patient, but there are a few junctions (such as this) where I think it is quite tough to get it right.

    Thanks again

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. bdellar
    Member

    When I ride that bit, I take primary in the lane, and if there are cars in front of me, I wait behind them. Basically, the same as I would if I was in a car. I don't overtake or try and filter.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. algo
    Member

    Thanks,

    I'll try and be a bit braver about it then and hold the lane like a car. Thanks again for the maps and alternative routes too - I'll be checking them out. Very helpful advice all round - thanks for the welcome.... stupid I didn't find this forum before - some really useful stuff on here.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Interesting reading this thread. I ride this junction (Semple Street - Morrison Street - Lothian Road)using the left most right hand turn, every day, and I pretty much do the opposite of what people suggest...

    I filter. Generally easier to ride along in the right most right turn lane, which is often only half full or less, then either slot into a gap two or three cars from the front (happens probably nine days out of ten) or put myself at the head of the queue. I'm probably fortunate, never had any issues from drivers when doing this (more often are people who are in the right most right turn lane, then when onto Lothian Road want to move across to the left so they floor it).

    Every now and then it's just too chocka to be able to filter at all, in which case I get into the first gap available and just go with the traffic flow.

    One thing I don't like doing is filter using the straight ahead lane, main reason being that as it goes green first, if you have a clear run drivers behind will assume (justifiably) you're going straight on, whereas I want to dodge into a gap on the right, which necessarily involves slowing down, and I don't want a car into my back wheel as I do so unexpectedly.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. wingpig
    Member

    The only time I'd ever bother turning right out of there is if it was empty of cars (unlikely between 17:00 and 18:00 on weekdays) or if I was in the usually relatively clearer straight-on-to-Bread Street lane and came level with the head of the right-turning queue just as the right-turn light went green and the vehicle at the head of the right-turning queue was not a taxi which might also be aiming for the bus lane. Otherwise I either Steveo south up Leamington Terrace or Morningsider north via Bread/Lauriston St, depending on my eventual destination.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. algo
    Member

    Hello,

    thanks for your post (just came up as I was supposed to be doing something else) - you clearly have a technique for that bit of road.

    I didn't want to post up with a specific bad instance, but what happened to me two days ago was that while waiting in the ASL on Morrison street heading towards Lothian road, at the junction from Semple Street. EXACTLY what you say happened - the rightmost lane was clear, the left of the two right turn lanes was blocked so I waited. The car behind beeped and tried to squeeze past to get into the rightmost right turn lane, and there were cars passing on my left to go to the straight ahead lane. I had nowhere to go but to join the straight on lane and then try and filter into the right lane somewhere - there was no space to move anywhere, and I didn't want to have a standoff with this car - that's why I feel a bit cowardly about it probably.

    In any case - I have lots of alternative route suggestions now (thanks), but it's interesting to hear the different approaches. I personally feel it's ok to filter if you feel are in a vulnerable position and there is an ASL ahead (Which there isn't in this case at the junction with Lothian Road) - otherwise I try to act like a car and stay in lane.

    Thanks again

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. lionfish
    Member

    ot: This might be quite a useful thread to point our councillors to. It's a single case example of the wider issue that (even confident) cyclists struggle on many of our roads and junctions. Some of the alternative routes are ok in this case, but often are very long/cobbly/make-you-get-off. How are new cyclists or children supposed to negotiate this?

    Oh, by the way: Welcome algo!
    Mind me asking how you found the forum?
    And did you make it to POP? (and have you heard about the breakfastbikeride.org.uk :D
    Hope you stick around - there's a PY meetup tomorrow, and a glossary to find out what CCE's on about :)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. algo
    Member

    Hello,

    thanks for the welcome. I'm afraid I had to work for this years POP which was a great shame - especially as it would have been the first time out with my daughter in her child seat. I'm sorry to say I'm away for the breakfast ride too but I keep looking and hope to make it to an event soon. I'm afraid I am certainly no athlete though.

    I found the forum by searching on google for edinburgh cycling - I can't believe I didn't do it before!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Personally I think what they need to do is reduce the number of right turning lanes to one, and two feeder cycle lanes could be fitted in (one on the left, one between the straight on and the right turn lanes), with ASLs at the head.

    Et voila.

    No confusion for drivers over which right turn lane to be in (and it really DOES cause confusion), and safe(r) access for cyclists.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. cb
    Member

    +1 for WC's proposal (even though I would always use the right hand lane if I was in the car).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. algo
    Member

    That is indeed a sensible and well-thought out suggestion. When I think back I've struggled to get it right around that junction in the van given the confusing and often invisible lane markings.

    What I believe is that road behaviour when riding or driving should be unambiguous - but there are a few places such as this junction which make that tough cycling or driving.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. lionfish
    Member

    "I'm afraid I am certainly no athlete though" - me neither! I pootle about town fairly slowly on my bike, and the weekend bike rides minimoth and I do are all fairly sedate, and involve lots of rest-stops and cafe visits! (the real reason people cycle a long way is just so they can visit more cafes and eat more cake).

    @WC: "Feeder lanes" are quite tricky though - I guess if there's space they could be wide enough. I also vote for a 10 second bikes-only part to the sequence. In general, how would the Netherlands solve the problem? (what would be your "dream infrastructure" to fix it? :)

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Two Tired
    Member

    the real reason people cycle a long way is just so they can visit more cafes and eat more cake

    So true.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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