Warning post about Belgian-plated Mercedes « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum

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Warning post about Belgian-plated Mercedes

(28 posts)

Started 11 years ago by algo
Latest reply from barnton-to-town

Tags:

Dangerous Driver

algo
Member

Hello,

I've only just joined here, but feel I should recount an old incident. I have seen that there have been warning posts here about drivers which are useful to other cyclists.

This is not to start a witchhunt of any sort, but I wish I'd known about this forum to warn other cyclists at the time, but the driver in question I still see about from time to time.

The car is a silver SUV type Mercedes with Belgian number plates - that's what makes it distinctive. Some time ago I was passed by the van very closely, which I ignored, but then later on (cycling along towards Shandon from Fountainbridge), the van passed me in slow moving traffic and as I was alongside drove towards the kerb forcing me to declip and try not to collide with the pavement (I wasn't adept enough to jump at this point). I tapped on the back of the van thinking it may have not have realised it was squashing me.

At this point the van stopped abruptly and the driver (Scottish - not Belgian) got out and grabbed an iron bar from the back of his car and told me I would get the beating of my life if I'd damaged his 60 grand Mercedes. I am quite a big bloke which didn't deter him, but completely pathetic at fighting so tried not to engage in any shouting - thankfully his wife got out and implored him not to beat me up. I didn't really say very much.... eventually he left and insisted on me shaking his hand, which I did incredibly reluctantly if only to get him to leave.

The man is pretty clearly unhinged and has a problem with cyclists. I see this vehicle about quite a bit, and I think he has a problem with cyclists. I would advise anyone not to even attempt interaction with him, and avoid him at all costs.

Sorry that this is so late and seems to be a negative post but I realise now this would have been a useful place to post at the time had I known.

Posted 11 years ago #
Coxy
Member

Threatened an assault! Did you report it to the police?

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

Alas no. I should have but doubted my own actions at the time as it was a tricky situation - I had been filtering up the left after the cars passed me and at some point the merging went wrong - I probably should have realised I wouldn't win the space - when the lane narrowed we reached that point more or less together. I could have backed off but felt he should have - if I'd known how he'd react I would have conceded for sure.

Posted 11 years ago #
Coxy
Member

Even so - you can't go round waving an iron bar at someone!

Did you get his plate?

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

I was a bit shocked at the time I'm afraid - I just remember it was a Belgian plate

Posted 11 years ago #
SRD
Moderator

"Sorry that this is so late and seems to be a negative post but I realise now this would have been a useful place to post at the time had I known."

Still useful now. No need apologize. Sounds like a horrific incident.

Posted 11 years ago #
Uberuce
Member

I'll bear this in mind, thank you and glad you came though unhurt. I'd say call the cops just to get this person on their radar, although from the sounds of it, it's likely he already is.

Posted 11 years ago #
Dave
Member

It's difficult because the other scenario is that you get taken out (potentially crushed into railings) by a vehicle drifting to the left, and the driver wishes you had rapped on the side and let them know, rather than be sitting with you, waiting for the police and paramedics.

Headcam would have been useful, I suppose, but that's the rule of headcams. If you ever get one, stuff will stop happening to you.

Posted 11 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

"the discipline ay the baseball bat" as Begbie so eloquently puts it in Trainspotting is, sadly, something that has to be factored into any interaction with a driver imo.

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

thanks for the replies...

@Dave - thanks for the advice - I will consider a headcam although I fear , being a luddite, that I will probably end up with hours of upside-down pavement footage.

@Cyclingmollie - nicely put - this incident did teach me a few lessons... I pretty much never remonstrate now - preferring to reinforce the positive with thanks and ignore the negative - I don't think a frustrated driver and adrenalin-fuelled cyclist is the best basis for rational discussion about how to share the roads.

Posted 11 years ago #
Dave
Member

It's not going to solve anything, but I still sometimes let rip, and think it's understandable to do so (especially if your life has just been endangered).

This doesn't go as far as iron bar waving, naturally!

I actually think that the best thing about a headcam is not so much that it records other people (although I'd rather not encounter an iron-bar wielding maniac without mine) but that it helps me with my own behaviour, road positioning, etc.

I said it better at http://mccraw.co.uk/video-protection-on-the-roads/

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

Great post and excellent blog - thanks for sharing that and taking the time to write it. Sorry the police didn't respond to that bit of bad driving - when I watched it I got a bit twitchy because you're on cobbles in the wet and being forced to brake or swerve - it's the sort of thing a non-cyclist doesn't think much of it seems- like avoiding the wheel sized potholes in the cycle and bus lanes on the A8.

From your posts and videos I see you get the balance right - you don't seem aggressive but you make your point and that's very admirable. If I can manage it maybe I'll try too, but something strange happened when I had kids, and all I want to do is get home in one piece!

Posted 11 years ago #
neddie
Member

...that's the rule of headcams. If you ever get one, stuff will stop happening to you

I'm not convinced of that. My experience suggests that with a headcam you consciously or sub-consciously go looking for conflict.

Since I removed my helmet, headcam, shades, I found that I avoided conflict much more, and now I mostly ignore drivers using phones, etc.

Posted 11 years ago #
Dave
Member

No way. I'm on to my second camera after quite a long hiatus (around two years, when I mainly rode recumbent) but it makes a huge difference in terms of incidents IME.

Obviously it's not actually true that wearing a camera causes people to drop their phones or instantly sober up (although tbh I think they are getting to be more and more widely recognised) but I wouldn't like to be without one again - at least not unless I switch back to recumbent and stop having to worry about 99% of bad driving.

Incidentally, in the end the police did get involved with the driver in the clip referenced above. I won't go into details, but I was happy with the way it was handled (apart from the fact that the EEN needed to run a story to get it out of the long grass in the first place).

Posted 11 years ago #
neddie
Member

I agree that a few high profile* cyclists with headcams is probably a good thing.

But do we really want to see all cyclists wearing cameras? IMO, that's as bad as all cyclists wearing h*****s!

Do they wear headcams in Holland, Copenhagen? We need to ask ourselves where we want to be.

*with large Twitter followings, good media contacts, etc.

Posted 11 years ago #
steveo
Member

We need to ask ourselves where we want to be.

And remember where we currently are...

Posted 11 years ago #
sg37409
Member

Eddie-H says using a helmet cam means your subconsiously looking for trouble. Easy to come to that conclusion as the only postings from them are of "incidents" and not (IME) the huge majority of incident free rides. <-(SteveO - this is where we are currently) Helmet cams already single cyclists out as not-normal-road-users and this is very much something to avoid.

Posted 11 years ago #
Min
Member

And remember where we currently are...

Hear hear.

Posted 11 years ago #
steveo
Member

Helmet cams already single cyclists out as not-normal-road-users and this is very much something to avoid.

The majority of road users wouldn't recognise a helmet cam until its pointed out, look at the files on the web.

Any way what is a Normal-Road-User? If you define normal as average its not a squishy person on a bike its a person in a car.

If helmet cams raise the profile of how bad the roads are and start down the path to ~~Valhalla~~ Copenhagen, great. But lets remember we live in a city which contains an element of road users aggressive to cyclists and a majority who are indifferent to cyclists and demonstrably inattentive.

Cameras can provide information to help the individual and until culturally this isn't required its up to the individual to do what they feel helps them.

Posted 11 years ago #
sg37409
Member

>> we live in a city which contains an element of road users aggressive to cyclists

This is a very small minority. (merc drivers, per this forum)

>> and a majority who are indifferent to cyclists and demonstrably inattentive.

Not sure how you define this: Vast majority of my rides are incident free. (touch wood) I dont find the majority of road users are demonstrably inattentive. Indifferent ? Perhaps, although I find I'm given space and time. (again, touch wood)

Normal road users are motorists.

Posted 11 years ago #
steveo
Member

Not sure how you define this: Vast majority of my rides are incident free. (touch wood) I dont find the majority of road users are demonstrably inattentive. Indifferent ? Perhaps, although I find I'm given space and time. (again, touch wood)

As are mine, but there are plenty of "incidents" in a day to prove that drivers don't pay enough attention to what they are doing. Not all incidents involve cyclists and not all even get as far as damaging paint.

Normal road users are motorists.
So if a "normal" road user is a motorist surely the fact the helmet cam user is on a bike single(s) cyclists out as not-normal-road-users far more obviously...

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

Hello,

I didn't really mean to start a debate about headcams here, but while we're at it I'll stick my two pennyworth in.

The vast majority of my rides are very enjoyable, and I think by being unambiguous, looking at drivers, signalling, and thanking them it reinforces the idea that we can share the roads amicably - this works well in the case of drivers who already think about cyclists or those that are fairly indifferent. To those (few) that take exception to cyclists I don't see any point remonstrating with them, but if they are genuinely dangerous then a headcam is a useful tool for bringing them to account if necessary.

My problem with a lot of the videos on youtube is that the intention is to promote better education, but in fact suffers from the failing of all anonymous posting forums - people say appalling things they would (hopefully) never say in reality because they are protected by their own anonymity and this just drives a fatter and more acrimonious wedge between those that love cycling and those that hate cyclists, by somehow making you feel you have to take a side.

I'm not sure how much use public posting really is, but I think headcams are a useful tool when it comes to making people accountable for their actions - as I think has been shown in Dave's video.

Posted 11 years ago #
steveo
Member

I didn't really mean to start a debate about ...

Welcome to CCE, thread drift is somewhat inevitable and not really something we worry about here. :)

Posted 11 years ago #
algo
Member

thanks :-)

Posted 11 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

algo: "but in fact suffers from the failing of all anonymous posting forums"

How true. I think the real value of those videos is when helmet-cam bloggers like Dave and Magnatom use them to reinforce the points they are making.

Posted 11 years ago #
Wilmington's Cow
Member

Interesting, mentioned this to DaveC just this very morning. Completely the opposite to subconsciously going looking for trouble I actually feel the cam keeps me more relaxed - if anything happens I know I don't need to confront anyone cos I can check the footage later, and 99 times out of 100 it's meaningless to put online. I post incidents incredibly infrequently.

Though I find the complaint that people only post bad incidents slightly odd. To be frank, videos without incident would be immensely dull to watch.

Not sure my cam marks me out as 'not normal' either (well, no more so than being on a bike in the first place). The cam is mounted on the bike and looks like a light... I'd have thought a helmet, bright yellow jacket and only two wheels would mark someone out as 'not normal' (if the definition of 'normal' is driving a car) more than a small cam.

And no, they don't use cams in Copenhagen. There's one very obvious reason for that, but on top of that there's a presumption that it's people using cams that are therefore stopping us becoming like Copenhagen (because we're not thinking about where we want to be) - I know exactly where we want to be, it's somewhere where I feel I can leave the cam at home, and I'd argue we get to that point more readily with better infrastructure, better training and awareness, and better enforcement. In fact reaching a Danish utopia probably has 'not filming my commute' pretty far down the list of reasons (it's a bit like the cycle chic debate - wearing normal clothes and not using a cam are 'effects' of a good cycling culture, not the 'cause'. Correlation rather than causation.

P.s. I've also filmed poor infrastructure to highlight what it's like to ride on (moving pictures being so much better than google map screen grabs) and a gaggle if riders ascending and descending the spiral car park ramp behind the St James Centre with the Chipmunks singing 'You Spin Me Round' over the top - so it's not quite 'all' bad incidents. ;)

Posted 11 years ago #
Cyclingmollie
Member

WC: "it's a bit like the cycle chic debate - wearing normal clothes and not using a cam are 'effects' of a good cycling culture, not the 'cause'. Correlation rather than causation"

Hear hear.

Posted 11 years ago #
barnton-to-town
Member

Headcams give some level of publicity to bad driving habits, the like of which are only ever going to be resolved by;
More driver training prior to licensing
More frequent checks on driver competence
More punishing consequences for significantly bad driving, e.g. test resits

The only other way pressure will be put on the Government is by cyclist injuries/deaths. I'd rather see far more video examples of bad driving as a mechanism to put pressure on our politicians.

Posted 11 years ago #

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