CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Interesting link from David Hembrow - the Dutch do manage to do it cheaper
http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2009/11/costings-of-improvements-for-cyclists.html
€200k for 0.4 km of cycle track on both sides of the road, plus sorting out all the pipes, electric at the same time (fancy that!).
"sorting out all the pipes, electric at the same time"
That didn't work well in Edinburgh! (Leith Walk/tram)
"
A number of major transport projects vital to Edinburgh and the Lothians are among a raft of improvements that will cost taxpayers a total of £7.5 billion over the next three decades – yet the Scottish Government has not made the figure public.
"
But whatever the figures we can start from the assumption that they are vital.
@CalumCookable The removal of the M8 and restoration of the Monklands Canal to a surface waterway for its entire length would make a massive difference to the area, especially if the the long standing routes of City Road and the Great Dumbarton Highway (Argyle Street) which were effectively continuous shopping, banks and cafes right out from the core of the city, not unlike Woodlands Road, which managed to survive this era of civic vandalism.
One nice twist that those not local to the area may miss, is that the link road from Dobbies Loan to Newton Street, is actually the A803 and NOT the M8 - it is signed as such, and it has a 30mph speed limit - a pretty poor sop maybe but, it maintains the link for walking, cycling and non Motorway traffic at this point, very handy on a bike. However 30mph is certainly not the speed of cars that have left the M8 and enter the city road network at Charing Cross/St George's Cross, and well shown by the very short life of 30mph signs, before they get demolished by a badly driven car. You do need to be fairly fast using it as the drivers are often doing 40+ before they move on to the motorway.
As mentioned above, the SG Objectives ought to make investment in all sorts if 'cycling' 'easy'.
Any suggestions?
"...a very interesting concept where the car was the guest, especially in some of the smaller streets."
Yes, totally agree, including rural and estate roads too. Irrespective of tax.
Keith Brown quoted in The Times "He said a “mutual respect campaign” would be launched next week and it would go “a long way” to ensuring both motorists and cyclists used the roads appropriately."
Does he really think that a poorly funded advertising campaign is going to change road behaviour? I'd be willing to put money on the fact it will make zero difference - given the effectiveness of the Give Me Cycle Space Campaign?
@Morningsider - couldn't agree more, but I thought they claimed given 'Give Me Cycle Space' was a huge success. Any insight into the data?
SRD - you are correct. Cycling Scotland do claim that the campaign is a great success. However, they assess this by asking drivers and parents how they have reacted to the campaign - rather than trying to measure the actual impact. This is important - how many drivers when asked "Has the campaign encouraged you to slow down near schools" are going to say "No"? I would argue that Cycling Scotland's analysis of the campaign is effectively worthless.
You have lots of experience of cycling to school and the traffic environment around it - have you noticed some magical transformation in driver behaviour in the last year? I know that is anecdotal evidence - but does anyone really think this campaign has made any difference?
Ok, lets have that upcoming Mutual Respect campaign in full:
Cyclists !
DO keep over to the left
DON'T ride two or more abreast
DO wear helmet and hi viz at all times
DON'T expect any sympathy or protection from the authorities if you are involved in a 'collision'
Motorists !
DO continue to regard the speed limit as the de facto lower end of your cruising speed spectrum
DON'T expect to be unduly inconvenienced on your important journey by 'vulnerable' road users
DO remember that its YOUR road, your taxes pay for it
but DON'T drink and drive
I think we all know that that's not what the campaign will say. There will be calls for drivers to give cyclists room and so on; and there will be calls for cyclists to stay off the pavement and not run reds.
But as Morningsider says, the effect will be negligible to nil (on both sides) as there will be no enforcement and probably a really poorly designed poster (like the Give me Space campaign which suggested a child's arm width was enough room).
@o_0
O so cynical.
And more or less correct.
Had a 'preview'
Ad agency pretty told to think again.
I don't think CS wants them to.
@Morningsider -
"Does he really think that a poorly funded advertising campaign is going to change road behaviour?"
Depends how you define "poorly".
New one due to cost £400k...
there will be calls for cyclists to stay off the pavement
unless the council say the pavement is a shared use path... in which case, DO stay off the road.
Keith has clearly completely misunderstood what's going on in those streets in Amsterdam. Yes, cars are 'guests' there - that's because you only drive down those streets if you're going to one of those houses or shops, because rat runs have been eliminated so you literally are a guest or a visitor, and also there are fewer cars. And the roads are designed to make it hard to speed on them, so the few cars there are behave better - even if they wanted to mow down their neighbour's children they're going to struggle to get up enough speed. Once you've got those conditions in place, it's time to talk about campaigns of mutual respect and encouragement. Not before...
Once you've got those conditions in place, it's time to talk about campaigns of mutual respect and encouragement. Not before...
Keith doesn't do before or after. He does instead of.
I think it would be effective if there was a campaign which simply highlighted some of the advice from Level 2 Bikeability.
If everyone cycled like this - in primary 80% of the time, and outside of the door zone, and not using cycle lanes under 1.5m (its all in there!) - then suddenly segregated cycle lanes would start looking like a good idea...
"like the Give me Space campaign which suggested a child's arm width was enough room"
Ah well -
I think the intention was to indicate that the space required was BOTH arms lengths!
Also I fear part of the message that gets across is 'give space to children' (only?)'
chdot - £400,000 is a good amount of cash, could build nice bit of infrastructure for that. However, it isn't a huge marketing spend - particularly when it includes TV adverts.
I still marvel at the fact someone authorised an advertising campaign telling drivers not to run over children. I'm sure it would have made an excellent episode of The Thick of It.
Don't *bleep*ing run over *bleep*ing children? Who the *bleep* comes up with this *bleep*? I mean are we going to have a *bleep*ing campaign telling the stupid *bleep*ers to *bleep*ing well not shoot their *bleep*ing grannies next? *bleep*ing *bleep* *bleep*
meanwhile Glasgow's cycling tsar seems to have benefited from his trip to the Netherlands http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/agenda-creating-a-cycle-friendly-nation.21388251
"£400,000 is a good amount of cash, could build nice bit of infrastructure for that. However, it isn't a huge marketing spend - particularly when it includes TV adverts."
Yes.
'But that's a different budget/local authorities' responsibility'.
"Cycling Scotland do claim that the campaign is a great success. However, they assess this by asking drivers and parents how they have reacted to the campaign - rather than trying to measure the actual impact."
It's hard to imagine enough real world changes to be measurable.
Of course we'll have to see what is actually released as the new campaign, but I'll take a lot of convincing before I think that it's a good use of SG/CS money.
"
“SEStran is looking forward to working with Scottish Government and the other partners in the Delivery Forum, to make reaching the target of 10% of everyday journeys taken in Scotland being by bike by 2020 a reality.”
"
http://www.sestran.gov.uk/news/146/sestran-welcomes-publication-of-cycling-action-plan-for-scotland/
We came up behind a bus with a "Give Me Cycle Space" ad on the back yesterday - I was driving, boyfriend in passenger seat. I asked b/f what he thought of the ad. He hadn't even noticed it, or registered that it was about cyclists, and having read it he didn't think that it would make any difference to anyone.
This advert has a child's head in a helmet, no picture of a bike at all.
*Dredge*.
If everyone promises not to talk about the Niceway Code, might I ask a question?
What metric is being used for the 10% by 2020 target (deliberately target, rather than vision)? CAPS2013 mentions several potential indicators, but then I read somewhere a figure of 1.2% in 2012, so presumably they've decided on one.
Any ideas?
I realise I'm a bit behind on this, but given SPT are starting to hide behind it I thought I'd bring myself up to speed with a bunch of dull documents...
The 1.2% figure is from the Scottish Household Survey Travel Diary 2012. You can see the figure in Table 2:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/statistics/j285661-12.htm
This is perhaps a starter for ten:
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2013/02/1-by-2020-vision-or-target/
CAPS 2010 states that it's a vision, of 10% of all journeys taken in Scotland.
CAPS 2013 states that it's a shared vision, of 10% of "everyday journeys" taken in Scotland.
They also refer to Edinburgh's Charter of Brussels, which is "a modal share of 15% by 2020". There is a note that 'currently' (2013) the modal share is 7% – of journeys to work by bike.
Morningsider: spot on, thanks. I'd found the Scottish Household Survey, but got lost in their website.
Arellcat: thanks. I'd found the Spokes article (and then dug into the linked stuff like Carbon Scotland). The Charter of Brussels is a new one though.
Why is it that blog posts intended to be short always end up enormous?
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