CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Cyclist casualties up 9% & deaths up to 9

(30 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by SRD
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • poll: What will make you feel safer on the road?
    some nice posters asking drivers to 'respect' you? : (0 votes)
    knowing that the Minister and his boys have chatted about the issue? : (0 votes)
    locking your children in the house and refusing to let them out until they're 18? : (1 votes)
    5 %
    road designs that are designed to protect vulnerable users? : (18 votes)
    95 %

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Road casualties have fallen by 2 per cent and fatalities by 8 per cent since 2011, though there has been a small rise in serious injuries (4%). Car and pedestrian casualties have decreased whilst motor cycle and pedal cycle casualties have increased. Pedestrian and pedal cycle fatalities have also increased.

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/road-casualties-statistics-2012

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. Instography
    Member

    What we need is some more dual carriageways and bridges. And 'mutual respect'.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. bax
    Member

    Keith Brown:

    countries like the UK and Ireland are clearly reducing fatalities in cyclists and all other road users without strict liability legislation in place

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3795521.ece

    Transport Scotland Report:

    Pedestrian and pedal cycle fatalities have also increased

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/road-casualties-statistics-2012

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. rust
    Member

    That'll be from all the pedestrian and pedal cycle collisions though. If we all drove everywhere then all the fatalities would have decreased.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. Morningsider
    Member

    Incredibly, unbelievably this quote is from the Chief Executive of Cycling Scotland:

    "While the overall statistics for road safety have improved, the statistics relating to vulnerable road users like pedestrians and cyclists are concerning. The annual summit between the Transport Minister Keith Brown and senior transport officials from local authorities in September will provide an opportunity to focus on cycle safety as one of its priorities."

    The statistics are "concerning" and (at least part of the answer) is a talking shop - it's beneath contempt.

    Details: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/2012-road-casualties-ministerial-statement

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    oops. typo in the poll. sorry!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. Instography
    Member

    So when's it scheduled this annual summit? How many people will be killed or seriously injured before they crack open the Hob Nobs and fire up PowerPoint?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Fixed

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. steveo
    Member

    locking your children in the house and refusing to let them out until they're 18?

    That's the plan for the daughter, cheaper than a shotgun.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. Calum
    Member

    It's no surprise that fatalities amongst vulnerable road users have increased. The SNP, like all the main political parties, like to posture as the friend of the pedestrian and the cyclist but the reality is that they all have very strong pro-road carnage leanings and make considerable efforts to design danger into roads. They are ably assisted in this particular "shared vision" by the police, with their refusal to enforce traffic law, and the courts, with their derisory sentences for lawless drivers.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. "Keith Brown:

    countries like the UK and Ireland are clearly reducing fatalities in cyclists and all other road users without strict liability legislation in place

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3795521.ece

    Transport Scotland Report:

    Pedestrian and pedal cycle fatalities have also increased

    http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/road-casualties-statistics-2012"

    Can we just send this perfectly simple message to KB?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. SRD
    Moderator

    We're trying -

    http://pedalonparliament.org/cycling-casualties-up/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. I was thinking more a direct, "Hey Keith, y'know you said just 5 days ago that cycle fatalities are going down? Well, erm, have you seen this Transport Scotland report that says the exact opposite?"

    Obviously PoP has to comment on it, but I doubt KB has the site in his favourites. I'm off to that WriteToThem site, or whatever it's called.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. SRD
    Moderator

    Personally I liked what that sallyhnch tweeted:

    You know how Scotland doesn't need Strict Liability laws because casualties are falling? Bollocks

    http://pedalonparliament.org/cycling-casualties-up/ … #pop2 @POPScotland

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. Write To Them allows you to write to your own MSPs only - but praise be for the list system, so I've sent this to Alison Johnstone.

    Dear Alison Johnstone,

    Five days ago Keith Brown was quoted in the Times newspaper as rejecting the need for strict liability on Scotland's roads, mentioning that cyclist fatalities were falling in the UK.

    Today Transport Scotland published details of Scotland's roads for 2012 which show... cyclist fatalities have increased (while motor vehicle fatalities have fallen). Clearly Mr Brown has, within the space of five days, been shown to have based his reasoning on false information (or on no information at all and merely an assumption).

    Is there any way that this can be raised with the minister to find out the reason for the discrepancy between Mr Brown's assertion, adn the simple published public facts?

    Yours sincerely,

    Anthony Robson

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. SRD
    Moderator

    @wc - write to Kezia Dugdale and everyone else who was at POP too. Especially Jim Eadie!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. Morningsider
    Member

    The Key Reported Road Casualties 2012 publication also states "There are now more cyclists on the roads which will impact on cycling casualty numbers with numbers increasing by around 30 per cent in the last ten years, as shown by the National Travel Survey and Traffic estimates published in Scottish Transport Statistics."

    What it doesn't say is that all motor vehicle traffic increased by 8.4% over the same period (calculated using figures for 2001 and 2011 from Table 5.3 Scottish Transport Statistics 2012) - in real terms a far higher increase due to the paltry number of cyclists. It is also worth noting that casualties for drivers and passengers have decreased over this period, despite traffic volumes increasing.

    It's the huge (and increased) number of motorised vehicles on our roads that pose the danger - not a small increase in the number of cyclists.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. Roibeard
    Member

    @Inst - yep, dug out the email address for Ian Aitken and emailed him to ask how the advertising and summit was going to make people feel safer.

    Particularly since cycle "safety" advertising is usually about telling us how dangerous cycling is, so we need to protect ourselves, or telling drivers how vulnerable we are, which when heard by (potential) cyclists still clearly says cycling isn't safe!

    Incidentally his email address isn't on the Cycling Scotland website, but a bit of guesswork and Googling found it in the public domain - IanAitken@cyclingscotland.org for those interested...

    Robert

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. Instography
    Member

    Surely they mean to say that the number of cyclists has only increased by 30% in the last 10 years. That there are more cyclists on the roads is precisely the problem. They should be on high quality segregated infrastructure.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. sallyhinch
    Member

    Interesting - so Scotland *isn't* seeing the same levelling off of motor traffic that the rest of the west appears to be seeing?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. Instography
    Member

    Just to be pedantic and clear - the figures relate to distances travelled on roads. The most clearly comparable figures for cyclists and cars would be distances on minor roads. The figures in the table Morningsider refers to show for minor roads:

    - cars up 13%
    - motor cycles up 8%
    - buses down 8%
    - light goods up 26%
    - HGV down 22%
    - cycling up 35%

    All in terms of million km between 2001 and 2011.

    Actually, you really have to commend the SG press office on some good management of the news. The 9% increase since last year is the least bad figure they could have used. Check out Table 3 of the Excel sheet here which shows a 19% increase in killed or seriously injured over the 2004-08 average that they use as their comparator baseline. Or a 34% increase in the numbers KSI on non-built-up roads.

    Table 5 will show you that while the numbers seriously injured have fallen for every other mode of transport, including pedestrians, compared with the 2004-08 average, the numbers for cyclists are up 25%.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. Alison Johnstone has (already) responded that she is most disappointed in Keith Brown's stance, given CAPs suggests a 'desk review' of strict liability, and she'll be pursuing the minister (not, I assume, in a Benny Hill style).

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. Morningsider
    Member

    sally - 2007 was the peak year for road traffic in Scotland, and there has been small annual falls since then. However, the level of traffic is still above that in 2005 - i.e. sixth highest on record.

    My previous post was trying to demonstrate that the SG wasn't showing the whole picture with regards increased cycling casualties - i.e. solely blaming an increase in casualties on an increase in cyclists, when it made no claims regarding increased motor vehicle traffic and a decrease in casualties.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. sallyhinch
    Member

    @morningsider - thanks for the clarification! Decline seems to have been going on longer in the US.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. sallyhinch
    Member

    so hang on - they're saying cycling is up 30% but there aren't any figures for 2012 - just 2011 that I can see. So that's an increase of 30% over 10 years to 2011?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. SRD
    Moderator

    Did anyone else see Living Streets response? http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/pedestrians-at-risk-on-our-roads

    Head of Living Streets Scotland, keith Irving, commented:

    "The decrease in overall fatalities and child casualties on Scotland's roads is obviously welcome. It is very worrying to see a huge 26% increase in the number of pedestrian fatalities, from 43 in 2011 to 54 in 2012.

    What is clear from these statistics is that pedestrians are still the most vulnerable road users: 32% of all fatalities on Scotland's roads are pedestrians. Yet benefit the least from investment in infrastructure and the public realm. We need action to make our towns and cities safe walking environments, to prevent more tragedies happening for want of simple proven measures such as slower traffic speeds and safe crossing points."

    This is a response? What does he think they might do to actually accomplish this?

    I've just sounded them out informally about possibly campaigning on the idea of having targets for vulnerable road users ie disaggregating the KSI stats, and been told that no, their priority is the 'responsible parking' bill.

    Which will obviously do lots to make pavements more pleasant and easier to walk (assuming it is enforced), but bleep-all for safety on the roads.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. Morningsider
    Member

    The responsible parking bill won't do anything - I have it on good authority that it is outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. This means the Bill can be introduced and will undergo initial consideration, but must then be thrown out. Unless Living Streets have managed to come up with a very clever way of bringing the Bill within scope - but I doubt it.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. SRD
    Moderator

    Morningsider - yesterday Sarah Wollaston MP tweeted this link http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/part/6 with this text "transport qns today; expect an important announcement soon on measure to help stop parking in cycle lanes"

    looking at it now, I see several replies asking her to take up footway parking as well. are the changes being proposed of the sort that would affect scotland too?

    And, do you know why pavements aren't included?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. Morningsider
    Member

    The Traffic Management Act 2004 only covers England and Wales, although there is no reason why this couldn't be extended to cover Scotland - although it would likely take an Act of the UK Parliament to do so. I wouldn't say there was much to get excited about here - this is what was said:

    Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): When will the Minister’s Department implement part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004 to prevent dangerous driving and to allow the prosecution of those who drive in cycle lanes and commit other moving traffic offences?

    Stephen Hammond: My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that we are having cross-departmental discussions on the matter. No decision has been taken yet, but I hope we will come to a conclusion in the near future.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    "Cycle casualties rise faster than bike use"

    (UK)

    "
    The data showed that the ‘Olympic bounce’ of increased popularity failed to materialise despite the success of Team GB cyclists at the London Olympics. The distance travelled by bicycle rose by just 1.2 per cent, well below the rate of increase for people killed or seriously injured whilst cycling.

    "

    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3802069.ece

    Posted 5 years ago #

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