Going home last night I had five sets of pedestrians step out in front of me during the descent. I wasnt going more than 10-15 mph, and wearing my brightest Husker Du t-shirt. On each occasion I braked to a complete stop but the surface offers very poor traction and my rear wheel locked up and skidded. I guess if I hadnt had a major service last week I'd have hit someone. What is the point of a cycle facility if it can only be used at walking pace; it is still beyond me that the cycle side cannot be reserved for bikes only; maybe it needs fences either side. It does not fill me with any interest in other segrgated on-road facilities.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
MMW - Pedestrians
(21 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
-
@Mgj MMW is always pretty bad on sunny days/festival time. It is definitely not one to go fast on. I agree it's frustrating but its a couple hundred yards at most. And there are shops and benches on either side that pedestrians obviously want to travel to. I don't see that it would make sense to barricade them off, but like you I do wish they would LOOK more often before blundering across.
ps I'm not sure I understand the logic to your last sentence
Posted 10 years ago # -
Putting in a kerb between the pedestrians and cyclists would work wonders, such that it would be like a road, with the cyclists lower than the pedestrians. It works elsewhere as cyclists keep to the side they should be on.
It might be some of them are tourists who aren't used to that many cyclists around and the layout.
Posted 10 years ago # -
If you think MMW is bad, try Porty Prom over the past few days! Walking pace? That's sheer luxury that.
Shared space is just that, you have to be prepared. MMW is usually okay, but there are always people who don't look before wandering in front of cyclists. I find having a bell is useful, even when the wanderers have fully enclosed headphones on.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Porty Prom is slighly different. I look on it as a shared space you are allowed to ride down, rather than it being a cyclepath. I would have no problems at having to ride at walking pace down the prom, I would take issue with having to do that all the time on MMW.
Posted 10 years ago # -
There's no legal requirement for pedestrians not to walk on the bike side of the path - just as we've got no jay walking laws, meaning we can walk in the road too if we feel like it. Different surfaces and levels will help encourage pedestrians to stick to their own side, but wherever there are a lot of people it's going to be an issue.
Large numbers of bikes flowing through is probably the best way to keep the path clear of pedestrians. You soon learn where not to walk in Amsterdam or CopenhagenPosted 10 years ago # -
So there will be no legal reason that pedestrians cant wander out unlooking into segregated cycle facilities on Leith Walk etc. was the point I was trying to make, obviously not very well. A cycle facility shouldnt be shared space; no one considers roads to be shared space, and where it is unreasonable to expect vehicles to be able to stop from their average speed quickly, traffic that could cause issues is prohibited (so bikes and horse drawn vehicles, and pedestrians, are not allowed on Motorways).
Posted 10 years ago # -
Roads are very much shared space (it's just that they are now dominated by motor vehicles).
As mentioned in another thread, people used to play tennis in streets, gossip with neighbours, children play (games like kerbie, BMX jumps, etc) and even trade wares. In fact streets were seen as a communal extension to your house/garden.
Posted 10 years ago # -
My attitude is to tolerate pedestrians on segregated facilities. Often they are simply unaware that they are on the cycling section, sometimes because the markings are worn, or they are visitors, or the sheer volume of people spills over and others blindly follow others...
Posted 10 years ago # -
During the summer (and especially at Fringetime) it's entirely reasonable to anticipate and cede-to-as-the-more-vulnerable-user pedestrians on MMW and environs, much as one might expect to need to watch out (all senses) for pedestrians spilling onto the road on the Lawnmarket or Canongate during the height of the tourist season. Save your exasperation for the people who choose to walk on the cycle side (particularly when they walk right over one of the big bicycle signs) when both sides of the path are otherwise deserted.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I consider roads to be shared space - shared by cyclists and other vehicles. We don't accept or excuse as legitimate motorists' "exasperation" at being held up by slow moving cyclists or their "frustration" at cyclists' "failure" to use the cycle lanes that are provided or stay in the gutter or door zone.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I regard the segregated parts of shared paths as footways that cyclists have permission to share with pedestrians - but that they remain footways, and hence, pedestrians have priority - and if they choose to walk on that side as they have the perfect right to, it's up to me, as a responsible cyclist to be aware of this, and to cycle accordingly.
It may be discourteous of the pedestrians to behave like this, but there's no legislation to outlaw discourtesy, as many cyclists who use shared facilities demonstrate regularly.
Posted 10 years ago # -
My comments about exasperation are not indicative of my own opinion (as my preceding statement (and opinions previously voiced on similar topics) ought to indicate) and were aimed up-thread at earlier accounts of implied exasperation.
Posted 10 years ago # -
MMW is always more tedious in the summer as that's when it has the most non-locals and non-regulars. The locals and regulars know to keep to the pedestrian side, and to look both ways before crossing the cycle path. A good loud bell helps.
It's far from ideal (*) but personally I'm far happier with this than I would be sharing the cycle path with parked cars, rampaging lorries, busy bus stops, etc.
* in my view it would be better and safer to make the cycle path and footpath instantly distinguishable to anyone, e.g. by making all the cycle paths a different colour, a different surface, down a sloping kerb from the footpath, etc.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hi Wingpig - I wasn't trying point at anyone, and apolgies if I gave that impression - I was just trying to make a point about shared facilities that I feel a lot of people forget.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Of course this behaviour by pedestrians isn't illegal. However it s inconsiderate, selfish and displays a frightening ability to remain oblivious to the consequences of their actions in a shared public space. The point is: An awful lot of these pedestrians will be driving their cars shortly after being pedestrians & they will continue to display exactly the same behaviour as they do as when they are on foot. I actually don't think it is too much to ask to pay attention to what you are doing in public, but the attitude that you don't need to transfers neatly across all modes of transport & a lot of people on here seem inclined to blame one mode of transport but not another. For me idiot pedestrian = idiot driver.
Posted 10 years ago # -
There is an expectation that people will act reasonably in public at all times; laws should only be put in place to manage them not doing that. I dont think it is reasonable to step out onto a road in front of a car travelling at 20 mph and then shout at the driver after he just fails to hit you; still Air Zound pumped up for this evening.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@wingpig
As were mine.Posted 10 years ago # -
"...inconsiderate, selfish and displays a frightening ability to remain oblivious to the consequences of their actions in a shared public space."
A bit over the top for a description of someone casually walking down a big path that isn't really all that well demarcated.
I've seen many cyclists that I also wonder what they're like behind the wheel of a car.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Aw c'mon No you c'mon as Lambchop double album was titled.
What percentage of middle meadow walkers are students? They are not called students for nothing they are learning how to walk. They are allowed totake mad lurches to either side, act crazy etc, they are just learning. We the grown ups must look out for them until they can do straight lines, shoulder checks, shifts of balance without falling over etc
When a woman learns to walk
She's not dependent anymore
Page from her letter May 24thBye bye pride by the Go Betweens
Thank you for reminding me of this sensational song
Posted 10 years ago # -
People are generally very good at staying on the pedestrian side of the line once they understand the demarcation. Those walking on the cycling side generally just haven't understood or noticed the divided path idea. They usually scuttle across to the walking side as soon as they do.
Posted 10 years ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.
posts
