CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Porty Prom

(23 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by bdellar
  • Latest reply from allebong

  1. bdellar
    Member

    There's been a debate on one of the Portobello Facebook groups about cycling on the Prom. You get some cyclists there that use it as a commuting route, and they use it fast. Apparently one cyclist knocked a kid over and rode on.

    Now, the Prom is busy, and there's lots of kids, dogs, old folk etc, and some are walking along, and some are crossing to get to the beach or a pub/shop etc.

    Some people suggested a cycle lane, but I'm not convinced, seeing as so many people cross the prom, instead of walking along it.

    Any idea what a sensible solution would be? What would the Dutch or Danes do?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    What would the Dutch or Danes do?

    Have a proper cycle lane down Portobello High Street!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. bdellar
    Member

    Well, yeah, of course! But what about the Prom?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. fimm
    Member

    I get the impression that Dutch bike lanes are lanes for bicycles, and you would take as much care crossing one on foot as you would crossing a road on foot. Is that correct?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. wangi
    Member

    I've avoided the Facebook discussion... I do not wait to come across as apologising for the cycling idiots in any way.

    There are a significant minority of cyclists on Porty Prom who do so in a reckless and ignorant way. I live on Esplanade Terrace and the speed that some go past people's gates and the beach ramps is shocking. They cannot see children & dogs who are using those gates; do not slow down to cautious speed anticipating them being used... It's like they've got blinkers on.

    And if you try to have a conversation to let them know the risks? Best of luck; ignored at best, a few choice words otherwise.

    Yours, ranty Porty Prom cyclist.

    (PS: nothing has changed pre/post cycling signs)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. wangi
    Member

    As for solution? This is not something you can engineer away. Everyone needs to respect each other on the shared use Prom. If your interest is simply A to B as fast as possible then get off the Prom and on to the road.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. riffian
    Member

    This was debated a length at the Portobello community Council meeting last year that discussed the new signage that was eventually installed relatively recently.
    The injuries to children by speeding cyclists are entering the urban myth status in Portobello. That's not to say they haven't happened but I get the feeling they get deployed indiscrimantly and exagerated by some that wish to ban cycling on the prom all together.
    I have noticed some cyslists pegging it down the prom but this does tend to be early in the morning or at quiet times. At busy times the critical mass of peds imposes its own speed limits. That doesnt absolve cyclists of the responsibility to 'ride to the conditions' of course.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "PS: nothing has changed pre/post cycling signs"

    That's interesting and perhaps not too surprising.

    Think lanes might make things worse.

    Much as I hate them, might be justifiable to have some chicanes.

    Is it noticeably worse at 'commuting' time?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. wingpig
    Member

    During the summer any sort of guidance lane on the prom would have zero effect. In the summer even the well-established and usually-observed MMW lane is defeated by the weight of pedestrian numbers.

    I hope that the speeding dingbats are not feeling more justified now that the no-legal-basis no-cycling signs have been replaced and there are signs indicating the prom to be the offical Route 10 or whatever number it is.

    I'll usually only bike along the (east of the Figgate Burn) prom slowly in the evening, or slowly if I can't be bothered with Seafield Road. I had to get to Esplanade Terrace at the weekend, with the boy on the seat on the back and his balance bike bungeed to the front rack after he retired after 1.71 miles. As the busyness was such that it took five minutes to get from the Figgate Burn to the Espy I gave up and looped around on the road, which was far less busy.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. rust
    Member

    I would agree that it wouldn't really work to put a cycle lane on the prom. I think this would encourage speed while doing little/nothing to decrease the chance of pedestrian/cyclist collisions.

    But how do you slow down or remove those who are going too fast? I think if people are currently choosing to cycle too fast down the prom then there is little you are going to be able to do to slow them down - they want to get somewhere quickly and, I'd guess, either don't realise or don't care that their actions are dangerous.

    They need a more appealing alternative, or for the prom to be less appealing. Seeing as the latter would be difficult to implement without causing issues for everyone, it comes back to kaputnik's suggestion. A proper cycle lane, taking a more direct route along the high street. Those who favour speed and directness should then be naturally drawn to this, while those who want to poodle along the beach front can go along the prom.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. wangi
    Member

    chdot "Is it noticeably worse at 'commuting' time" - there's obviously larger numbers, so naturally more prevalent then (evening commute). However by far the worse culprits tend to be lycra clad, heading out East Lothian way for an evening cycle.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. wingpig
    Member

    Chicanes probably wouldn't be considered as the cooncil needs the full width for sand-shifting tractors and rubbish-collecting vans to get past. Short of big signs saying SLOW DOWN you selfish tubes (which would probably never be agreed upon as they'd not look good on postcards and photos) the preferable alternative is probably the only option. I haven't tried it recently but the left-hand escape from King's Road to Porty High Street didn't used to detect lone bicycles, though was Clarenced and hopefully fixed. Back when the no-cycling signs were up and I avoided biking on the prom in case it wound people up I'd sometimes think to re-join it around King's Road when heading west but would usually miss any appropriate turn, so a reliable/protected/filtered way of turning right across the High St to access the prom around Figgate St would be useful. Since the replacement of the roundabout I don't know if it's legal to turn into King's Road at that junction when coming from the direction of the High Street, presumably requiring a dismount and several long waits to get across as a cycle-toting pedestrian.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. crowriver
    Member

    Have a proper cycle lane down Portobello High Street!

    Aye, but that would upset motorists, bus passengers, kids and grannies trying to get to the shops... Cyclists can't win.

    I cycle on the Prom just about every week, rain or shine. It's usually fine with plenty of room to cycle at a moderate pace. It's not a place to go fast, unless it is exceptionally quiet, but even then not advisable.

    It's daft and plain rude to try and ride fast on the Prom if it's busy. With the current weather and the numbers of folk about it's walking pace or just get off and push for a bit.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. wangi
    Member

    "Since the replacement of the roundabout I don't know if it's legal to turn into King's Road at that junction when coming from the direction of the High Street" - it's perfectly legal, but many would find it a bit scary. The right turn to Kings Rd is the same road lane as straight on Seafield Rd.

    Best option is to turn right just before this at Westbank St (at the 5-aside pitches)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    I've seen a child knocked down by a cyclist on the Prom. Child ran out, cyclist going too fast to stop. And I've ridden (slowly) in the "slipstream of outrage" left behind by a cyclist going far too fast for the conditions. It's better than using the main road though. That's where the real nut-jobs are.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    Happened to be down there this morning.

    Must be ages - when did Beach House get bigger?

    Quite a lot of people on bikes but FAR more walking - so it's about being sensible/respectful.

    Not in the "sensible" category were the three young BMXers - one had gardening tools on his back which stuck out quite a bit on both sides - he weaved in and out of the peds!!


    Porty Prom

    Those two weren't together.


    Parking at Porty

    Not really enough bike parking - though the racks at Swim Centre were completely empty!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. bdellar
    Member

    Hmmm, OK. In terms of solutions, the only ideas seem to be some sort of signs (we've already discussed chalk guerilla signs on the Prom) and a safe cycle path no the High Street.

    Thanks!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. tammytroot
    Member

    I cycle along the prom often.
    As others have said, just treat it as the canal towpath same problems really. prom is a bit wider but especially busy at the moment.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. EddieD
    Member

    I often feel that the best idea would be a couple of large but friendly cops promenading along the promenade pointing out the error of some folks ways

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. Klaxon
    Member

    Cycled along this evening at about 5.30 and would certainly have been better off on the High St. Simply too many people mingling, particularly those with prams and uncontrolled toddlers, to make it worthwhile even at a crawl.

    I don't think the 'solution' (if one is required at all) is any engineering on the prom itself, it's a leisure strip that isn't all that busy for 10 months of the year.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. neddie
    Member

    Was at Porty beach from 12 till 3-30 today. Almost all the cyclists I saw were either walking with their bikes, or travelling very slowly at just above walking speed.

    Only one passed us at moderate to slow speed, which I felt was a bit too fast.

    But I can't say I saw any problems. Perhaps it is worse at commute/evening ride time?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. neddie
    Member

    Polis also decided to DRIVE along the prom. I can't imagine what crime they would possibly spot from the windows of their car!

    To be fair, a couple of bobbys walked past on foot later.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. allebong
    Member

    The worst part about this is that bits like porty prom are a godsend to the tax-em then ban-em anti cycling brigade. It's all very well that we all (I assume!) cycle courteously down there but you only need one or two idiots in full view of everyone to begin to turn the tide of public opinion. Twas always thus....

    I have to say I would not shed too many tears if the place was shut off to bikes completely - I would imagine regular commuters along there might want to contest me on that though ;) Of course what we should have is a physically segregated route for bikes so that they can effortlessly bypass the road and leave the prom safely free for peds. It's a win-win as far as I can see and means discussions like this would never have to happen. But that's far too straightforward a solution for the powers that be, guess they'll have to paint some more 'cycle lanes' to make up for it.

    The canal being horrendously packed is just tolerable if I have to go along it as at least everyone there is using it as a path rather than a general social area like porty prom. I mean there's shops and houses and leisure complexes galore and I've always seen it as a public space rather than a thoroughfare.

    Posted 10 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin