CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
Just a reminder of the 'big lies' & hooky 'accounting' underpinning this project:
"The value of removing driver frustration is assessed as £430 million – £86 million more than the value given to collision reduction. Once the value assigned to removing driver frustration is added, the project would return £1.12 for every pound spent by the Scottish Government."
https://spice-spotlight.scot/2020/02/18/the-a9-dualling-project-crucial-for-scotland/
Then they need to factor in the loss of driving pleasure on going from one to two lanes.
I used to quite enjoy an exuberant motorcycle trip on bits of it. There's a wide sweeping bend after Drumochter where if you got it right you could [Post ends here for legal and ethical reasons.]
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An industry source said the A9 plans would be pushed back from their scheduled completion in 2025 to “nearer 2030”.
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https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/massive-schemes-dual-a9-and-a96-delayed-years-3126503
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It remains to be seen how much of the remaining 70 miles will be finished, and when – but forget the 2025 target, even if it hasn’t officially been scrapped.
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Next section to be done is Tomatin to Moy and AFAIK the contract isn't even due to be awarded until the middle of next year.
Following the introduction of average speed cameras and the 50mph limit for trucks I can't help but feel that any safety case for all this has completely collapsed. The 'do everything, eventually' approach means that the 'easy' sections where they just need to double the amount of tarmac cutting through completely rural areas are being prioritised - delivering staggering journey time savings of anything up to a whole minute per section and not much else - while the increasingly busy and dangerous junctions around eg. Dunkeld get worse and worse while Transport Scotland entertains false hopes about a massive tunnel that would probably cost as much as the rest of the project put together.
Meanwhile, motorists and non-motorists alike have to take their lives in their hands with nonsense like this south of Perth.
@jonty, I've actually crossed the A9 at that junction on the bike a few times. Certainly an experience! Wouldn't want to try it in the dark.
I did it once (on a route I'd planned ad-hoc on my phone the day before, so it came by surprise) and would entirely agree. Took us about five minutes and ended up taking the pedestrian route. I've looked since and come to the same conclusion I assume you have that there's no other good place to cross for ages either way.
Nice farm shop not long after on the southern side though!
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The report also contains a commitment to progressing dualling works on the A9, with the procurement of the construction contract for the Tomatin to Moy section expected to be awarded before the end of the year.
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“Subject to there being no challenge, we will then be in a position to complete the statutory process for the scheme and acquire the land to build it.
“Work to determine the most suitable procurement options for the remaining sections of the A9 dualling is also ongoing.
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In years to come tourists will flock to the site of the Soldiers Beep - where a visiting redcoat finally managed to break free of the Scottish traffic by blasting their horn for longer than anyone thought possible.
Paywalled
Nothing there either
The huge disparity revealed in the Police Scotland figures obtained from a Freedom of Information request is despite nearly one third of the 110-mile road being dualled. A motoring group said the “horrific” figures underlined the “undeniable need to accelerate” completion of the remaining 75 miles of dualling. Transport minister Jenny Gilruth has confirmed the Scottish Government’s commitment to complete the mammoth project, but the planned finishing date of 2025 is widely seen as unachievable. The scheme is one of the largest in Scotland’s history, with the final cost uncertain because its £3 billion estimate was published a decade ago. The police figures show there has only been one fatal collision on dualled sections since 2017, believed to have involved a single death, compared to 16 collisions on single carriageway sections, involving 20 deaths. The figures only include nine of this year’s deaths, which have reached 12 – the highest since 2010. They compare to one death on the road in each of the past three years. There was also a single pedestrian death on a slip road on a dualled section in Inverness in 2019, which is listed separately in the figures. The latest spate of deaths led to Ms Gilruth announcing £95,000 of further interim safety measures two weeks ago, including improved signs and road markings at Ballinluig, south of Pitlochry, Bruar, north of Blair Atholl, and Ralia, south of Newtonmore. Three people died at Ralia in August, while there have been several fatal and serious crashes at Bruar over the past four years. Neil Greig, the Scotland-based policy and research director of the IAM RoadSmart motoring group, said: “These horrific figures simply show the undeniable need to accelerate the upgrade of the A9 to full dual carriageway status all the way from Perth to Inverness.\" Mr Greig, who is also a member of the A9 Safety Group, which is chaired by Ms Gilruth, said: “Modern dual carriageways are safer than single carriageways and for a critical artery such as the A9, the case for improvement is clear. \"Countless people will have had their lives turned upside down by the deaths on the A9 so far this year – the highest figure for more than a decade. \"We welcomed the short-term measures announced by Transport Scotland to improve safety on the road, but without a firm date for the completion of the long-promised A9 dualling project, users will be worried the A9 is fast regaining its reputation for danger. This not only risks undermining all the progress made in recent years, but could impact the local economy as recession looms.” Scottish Conservative transport spokesperson Graham Simpson said: “These figures illustrate the stark difference in safety between the dualled and single carriageway sections of the A9. \"Although the dual carriageway is almost a third of the road, it accounts for only a tiny fraction of the fatal accidents. “Despite the SNP having pledged 15 years ago to complete this essential work by 2025, there are still some 70 miles that require upgrading, and absolutely no prospect of this target being met. The SNP Government must ignore the anti-car Greens and finally make good on its promise before even more lives are tragically and needlessly lost.” Neil Bibby, Scottish Labour’s transport spokesperson, said: “These are heart-breaking figures. While we welcome the new plan to upgrade safety on the A9, I would question why this is only being done now given these figures show an unacceptable number of accidents on this dangerous road over many years. “The priority now has to be putting in place effective safety measures which prevent the kinds of accidents we are seeing on the A9. We know the experts believe this will take more than the enhanced signage and road marking promised by the Scottish Government.” Mark Ruskell, transport spokesperson for the Scottish Greens, who are in a power-sharing deal with the SNP, said: \"We need to make the A9 safer. When I speak to local communities, the message is clear. They want us to improve the dangerous junctions and reduce speeds. \"Dualling every last inch will do neither of these things. Rather than spending billions on fuelling traffic growth, which is what would happen with a full dualling project, we should be investing in genuine road safety improvements to protect lives across Scotland.\" The Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency, which is responsible for the project, said its current cost estimate remained at £3bn at 2008 prices, but did not say when it would be finished. Its spokesperson said: “We are working hard to bring the benefits of the A9 dualling programme to Scotland, one of the biggest transport infrastructure projects in Scotland’s history. “We have already invested approximately £431 million to date delivering the programme, with work ongoing to determine the most suitable procurement options for the remaining sections. \"This is a complex exercise which looks at a number of factors including how the programme can be delivered most efficiently by the industry within the original cost estimate, whilst minimising disruption to road users and helping to support economic recovery post-Covid. “We will of course update Parliament when this work is completed.
So TS is trying to deliver this at the price estimated in 2008?
Or at least plus 15 years and more of ‘average’ inflation?
Of course most of the comments (currently 9) are in favour, but -
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Honey Suckle 5 hours ago
Of course it does - that's where the problems occur - as people race to get onto the single carriageway before the dualling ends. And as I pointed out before some strange drivers (who've been going at 50 on the dual for miles) will suddenly speed up to stop you getting past in time. I've seen it dozens of times over the last 40 years
Jock Tamson
5 hours ago
Perhaps a reduced speed limit and conventional cameras before these points?
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The £3bn at 2008 prices is wrong. The A9 Dualling Case for Investment estimated a total project cost of £1.892bn at 2010 prices (see page 75). The first Strategic Transport Projects Review (2009) estimated the cost at between £1.5bn and £3bn - although no year is given for this estimate.
Looking at raw road casualty data is a very poor way of understanding what is going on. It takes no account of exposure - if the single carriageway sections are twice as long as the dualled sections then you would expect (assuming the same levels of traffic) there to be roughly twice as many casualties. Also, because of the relative low numbers, and the fact collisions are the result of many factors, a couple of significant collisions can skew annual figures. This is why three-year averages are normally used, to help smooth out peaks and troughs.
Although every road casualty is a tragedy, it is worth noting that the A9 case for investment prices the value of accident reduction at £343.84m (this is before average speed cameras and a 50mph speed limit for HGVs on single carriageway sections of the road) - that is just 18.2% of the 2010 total project cost. The road safety case for dualling the A9 is actually very weak.
I thought annual fatalities had halved from 14 to 7 after they installed the average speed cameras on the single carriageway sections?
Fatalities now back up to 12. So what happened?
Is this a blip? Regression to the mean? Worsening driver behaviour after lockdown...?
Interesting that the roads lobby are now using 5-year figures instead of annual ones, to make it look like the number of deaths has increased and to try and further the case for dualling.
Hi folks not been on for a while, still on the bike though ! A9 dualling , hmm, those who know me know I am an hgv driver for my sins and travel the a9 frequently, 5 days a week ! Absolutely correct about cars speeding past on the dual sections only to be slowed on the normal sections , GOT TO GET IN FRONT OF THE LORRY . Smaller powered cars find it very difficult to overtake something doing 50 mph, the power isn’t there, they run out of steam, and inevitably road ! This year saw a large number of foreign drivers having accidents, it did seem worse the last 12 months, with tales of very near misses in our yard . The weather has been. Dry mild so far and the deer are still up high, they will be on the roads soon .
I’ve no answers except be carefull, oh and if the guy on the very heavy loaded touring bike seen on the whisky trail is on here. Well done !! It looked very heavy !! Front and rear panniers etc !!
Hi again
Useful to have someone who ‘knows what they are talking about’!
Significant that you don’t have a ‘yes or no’ answer…
Clearly, whatever the merits of dualling - all or part - there are other things that could be done to improve road safety.
Probably with better ‘value for money’ (however that’s measured).
@chdot I have no answers only questions ! Tbh I was amazed that the hgv speed limit was increased , vehicles are better ,granted but the road is far from suitable ! If the whole route was dialled then yes the average speeds might increase , beanz and bog roll are important cargo !
The way that some of the junctions are now being designed, eg Stanley , SEEM to be better with longer clearer lines of sight for all drivers.. Bruar is a disaster , every day sees something happening there .A really big issue are the days when big events happen, thunder in the Glen and the horse riding event at Blair castle produce hordes of people who have just spent a weekend enjoying themselves, perhaps with lots of alcohol. They just want home, and they don’t care how many people they cut up ot how many lanes of Broxden roundabout they must use ! Horse boxes are a bit of a personal bug bear ! They are driven by people only drive them to and from events, they have no idea how an hgv should be driven ! Anyway , perhaps if they dual anything, they should spend more time upgrading and maintaining the cycle ways? But as the “highway maintenance “ vehicles park on the cycle ways, what would be the point ?
On that point , if the whole road were dialled then more parking areas would be needed for all the hill walkers to inconsiderately park !! ( more likely for those charming camera vans). It’s a nice road to drive , compared to say the m8 but it is very stressful , from that point yes, it’s a good idea but I fear there are many no answers that deserve consideration . Maybe if we all just drove a bit better then it would be easier ?
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Soon after taking power, SNP ministers announced it would complete dualling of the A9 between Perth and Inverness – the road along the backbone of Scotland that connects the Central Belt with the Highland capital. In 2011, they dramatically upped the stakes with a hugely-ambitious target of finishing the job by 2025 in a project then estimated to cost £3 billion and be one of the biggest in the country’s history.
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No need to click the link unless you have a subscription - paywalled
From page source (apologies for lack of formatting):
Soon after taking power, SNP ministers announced it would complete dualling of the A9 between Perth and Inverness – the road along the backbone of Scotland that connects the Central Belt with the Highland capital. In 2011, they dramatically upped the stakes with a hugely-ambitious target of finishing the job by 2025 in a project then estimated to cost £3 billion and be one of the biggest in the country’s history. More than a decade on, there’s little on the ground to show for it, with just 11 miles of dualling added in two sections and more than 70 miles still to go. Moreover, Scotland on Sunday can reveal significant construction industry disquiet about the remaining work, with several firms said to have pulled out of the contest to build the next section, between Tomatin and Moy, south of Inverness. The winner is scheduled to be announced by this month, but after more than a year since the last stretch to be dualled opened, south of Dunkeld, a question mark hangs over when the next stage of work will even begin. Casting a dark shadow over the far-from-finished mega project as barely two years remain until the end of 2025 is an unexpected and substantial rise in the death toll on the road, since improving safety was seen as a key justification for dualling. After a single fatality in each of the past three years on the A9 between Perth and Inverness, the total has soared to 13 so far this year, all but one on sections of the route still to be upgraded to dual carriageway and the highest for 12 years. “It has caused SNP MSPs considerable internal discomfort,” according to an industry source. \"It should have almost been finished by now, and if they had really been serious about it, they would have been able to.” A party source did not disagree. “It’s been the longest pledge on the SNP’s books and in the manifesto for seven elections at Holyrood and Westminster,” they said. “But lip service is being paid to the commitment and the money is not being put in. People want good transport links, but they are losing faith with the SNP Government.” The increased fatalities in 2022, which have included two triple-fatal crashes and one involving two deaths, contributed to Scotland’s road death toll rising above its five-year average this summer and has increased the pressure on Police Scotland, which said on Friday it had been an “intense and demanding period”. Deputy Chief Constable Fiona Taylor: “Each of these fatalities is a tragedy. Reducing the number of road casualties is a priority and we work alongside the Scottish Government, Transport Scotland and others to do so.” But a squeeze on funding and rising interest rates appears to have created a bleak outlook for accelerating the dualling work, seen as likely to reduce the casualty toll. Despite all but one of the nine remaining sections completing their “statutory processes” before construction can begin, transport minister Jenny Gilruth told MSPs last month that Transport Scotland has still to decide how they will be procured – funded and built. This is despite the Scottish Government agency saying it had expected a “market consultation” over this to be completed in the summer of last year. The route of the last section, near Dunkeld, has not even been agreed. According to an industry source, there is “deep frustration” within the agency at the lack of progress. Construction firms believe the only way of making progress towards the 2025 target is for the work to be privately financed, like some previous road projects, where the cost is paid back over decades, but interest rate increases are said to have made this look unaffordable. There are also grumbles about Transport Scotland’s contracts leaving firms unable to make any money on such work, even if such an approach may be good for the taxpayer, such as in seeing past schemes such as the M80 upgrade between Glasgow and Stirling being finished on time and budget. The industry source said the lack of appetite for A9 dualling work among large firms had even led to the possibility of the contracts being split into smaller sections in an attempt to attract smaller Scottish and other companies. However, this is seen as likely to extend the completion date even further. “It’s going to take a lot longer,” they said. The source also said that while the £3bn cost, which is now referred to by Transport Scotland as “at 2008 prices”, may be even higher than the current equivalent of nearly £4.5bn because construction industry inflation is running at some 20 per cent. In its response, parts of Transport Scotland’s statement were unchanged on what it issued in June. It said work was ongoing “to determine the most suitable procurement options for the remaining sections”, with £431 million spent on the project to date. Its spokesperson said: “This is a complex exercise which is looking at a number of factors, including how the programme can be delivered most efficiently by the industry within the original cost estimate, whilst minimising disruption to road users and helping to support economic recovery post-Covid.” The body said “market engagement” was part of the procurement process. They would say only the Tomatin-Moy section was “in procurement, and will be subject to our normal tender evaluation and business case approval processes”, so “it would not be appropriate to comment further”. However, the spokesperson admitted a potential funding problem with the project. They said: “The Scottish Government has been clear that it has not been possible to fund all the commitments from the 2021 capital spending review. We know this will need to be reviewed again as the outlook for the UK capital grant allocations is not optimistic and inflationary pressure remains high.” Inverness and Nairn SNP MSP and former rural economy secretary Fergus Ewing, who has long campaigned on the issue, said completing the dualling was an “absolute imperative”. He said: “It is essential that further progress is made on delivery of our pledges to dual the A9 in my constituency. Further progress means revised timetables for completion and clarity on when each section is to be dualled. \"I continue to work with my colleagues in the Scottish Government towards implementing our long-standing promises to the people of the Highlands. The tragic loss of life this year shows that dualling is needed to improve safety and reduce further fatalities.” Graham Simpson, the Scottish Conservatives transport spokesperson, said: “All we seem to get from the SNP is dither, delay and excuses. We know the Scottish Government has the money – they have £2bn unspent, for example. Transport Scotland need to take a good look at themselves because I have certainly heard of contractors who don't want to deal with them. “There are whole series of vital projects, like the A9, the A96, the A82 and others that we need to get on with. Jenny Gilruth should call her officials in and tell them to hurry up.” Neil Bibby, his Scottish Labour counterpart, said: “Is anyone surprised a Scottish Government propped up by the Greens is failing our country’s motorists? This is becoming a pattern of over promising and under delivering in every part of the country. \"The Scottish Government and Transport Scotland are seeing key projects, which are vital to both economic growth and road safety, being tangled in complexity, causing delays and rising costs.” Neil Greig, policy and research director of the IAM RoadSmart motoring group, who also sits on the official A9 Safety Group, said: “Smaller contracts can only mean even more roadworks for longer and that must be even more bad news for the Highland economy.
If they really cared about the number of people being killed, they would reduce the speed limit on the single-carriageway sections to 30mph, enforced by average speed cameras.
But they don't really care, it's just a smokescreen because they want to see the road dualled, to induce even more traffic and to see even more fatalities on surrounding roads.
I fear a 30mph limit on the A9 would make the Jacobite rebellion look tame...
AIUI the fatalities this year have mostly been on the transitions between dual and single carriageways. Where drivers race to get past other drivers before the single carriageway stretch.
I would put that down to a symptom of the increased lawlessness we have witnessed on the roads post covid.
Rather than trying to solve this on the A9 we need to increase policing of road crimes. Making it expensive and inconvenient to speed, use your mobile phone or commit any of the other crimes which OLA drivers seem so fond of.
Additional point speed cameras along the transitions?
200 Air pollution deaths a year in Edinburgh is the context for the 13 in crashes.
Suspect most of the cost the government cares about of the crashes is not really measured in lives but in delays behind..
Also suspect dualling the train line instead would not quieten the A9 dualling proponents that much.
Also deaths per year is a poor proxy, one drunk minibus driver can make a road look horrific.
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