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TLDR - cyclist knocked off bike by normal car following funeral hearse then abused - taken 3 months to get solved, despite headcam footage (in article) then is told he should have known somehow that the red car was following the funeral and somehow not gone about his perfectly legal right of way.
TLDR my TLDR - victim blaming
Unbelievable
I watched this at 4am before leaving for work(by car as my shoulder is killing me this week!)
Been on my mind all day!
It is perhaps a sign of how we are all becoming so used to these things that this doesn't evoke much comment.
I'm going to be controversial, sorry.
First, the collision though. That shouldn't have happened, bad driving. The driver clearly saw the cyclist before hitting him. Shouldn't have hit him, full stop.
But, I do agree with the Police officer, how inconsiderate of the cyclist. When you see a funeral cortege, whether on a bike, or in a car. You stop, give the deceased the respect they deserve, and allow all of the cortege to pass, and It's very common for there to be several private cars following.
Once they have passed, you then carry on your way after a few seconds reflection.
It's not controversial as such.
My brief reading of reports is that police think 'cyclist should have realised it was a convoy', cyclist appears not to have noticed/anticipated.
So cyclist might be foolish, reckless or completely blameless.
corteges should go slower
this is giving funerals a bad name
...whereas standing on your horn, running into a cyclist and then scraeming at them are showing due respect for the dead? It wasn't clear how the cyclist was maent to know who was in the cortege, nor for that matter him turning right at this point in any way interrupts the procession.
"But, I do agree with the Police officer, how inconsiderate of the cyclist. When you see a funeral cortege, whether on a bike, or in a car. You stop, give the deceased the respect they deserve, and allow all of the cortege to pass, and It's very common for there to be several private cars following."
I've gone as far as removing my helmet. But.
Did you watch the video? Did you see the time gap between the funeral vehicles and the car that hit him? It wasn't even the next vehicle, but one behind that. The car immediately after the funeral cars was quite far behind, the one after that, the one that hit him, was miles later.
The question is, really, at what point do you assume it's no longer a car that's in the funeral procession? Seriously, at what point is it safe to assume that all the funeral cars are passed? The rest of the procession might have got caught at some lights... Those cars immediately behind may not actually be funeral cars, but the next block of ten cars after those ten cars are.
And... Do all the other cars on the road stop and let a funeral car to pass and not get mixed up ni the queue of cars after the funaeral cars in case they're also going to the funeral?
So, lots of questions in there. The most important one, how do you know when the funeral procession has ended and you can carry on your way after the moments' reflection?
But, I do agree with the Police officer, how inconsiderate of the cyclist. When you see a funeral cortege, whether on a bike, or in a car.
I disagree
Given the gaps,its not really evident the red car would have been part of the funeral to me
"...whereas standing on your horn, running into a cyclist and then scraeming at them are showing due respect for the dead?"
Plus this.
As I understood it, it was an ordinary car that was somewhat back from the obvious funeral cars. How long should the cyclist have waited so as to be absolutely certain that all possible funeral following cars had passed?
I can understand not getting inbetween a convoy of funeral cars, but surely you can't be expected to guess how many of the private cars following it are part of the funeral?
And even if you are, the idea that it should be used as mitigating circumstances baffles me. I'd personally take it in the other direction - it indicates that the driver of the car believes there are certain conditions under which it is acceptable to purposefully knock a cyclist off their bike and as a result I would make their sentence harsher.
It says something about society (and the police) that attacking some one is acceptable at all. The funeral element is a complete red herring and should only make the act seem more shameful.
Trolling is often compared to road rage. Recently I heard that trolling is thought to occur because, given the relative anonymity of social media, the troll loses their empathy. This also seems to be true of motorists wrapped up and isolated in their cars. This is why strong police enforcement is needed, to break up that illusion of security.
"it indicates that the driver of the car believes there are certain conditions under which it is acceptable to purposefully knock a cyclist off their bike and as a result I would make their sentence harsher."
+1
"This also seems to be true of motorists wrapped up and isolated in their cars"
You missed out the word some.
Or maybe not...
"...how inconsiderate of the cyclist. When you see a funeral cortege, whether on a bike, or in a car. You stop, give the deceased the respect they deserve..."
The cortège overtook the cyclist. At a pinch point. Is everyone overtaken or passed by such a procession supposed to stop, doff their headwear and so on? Does this apply to cars on the other side of the road, too? How is the amount of respect deserved by the deceased accurately determined?
"
how do you know when the funeral procession has ended and you can carry on your way after the moments' reflection?
"
Me personally? I would have stopped at the side of the road and waited if I was on a bike. In a car, the hold up would likely be waiting at a junction (they're not going to overtake you, or you them). A good indication of it having fully passed is when there are no people in 'mourning dress' (black ties etc) in the cars.
"Me personally? I would have stopped at the side of the road and waited if I was on a bike. In a car, the hold up would likely be waiting at a junction (they're not going to overtake you, or you them). A good indication of it having fully passed is when there are no people in 'mourning dress' (black ties etc) in the cars."
And if there was a gap in time when no cars were coming past?
interesting juxtaposition here:
Road rage incident in Bristol
A warning and an awareness course for ACTUALLY HITTING SOMEONE WITH YOUR CAR vs. a 4 year ban for trying....
That's more like it. Though, IMO 4 years driving ban is too short.
And if there was a gap in time when no cars were coming past?
Hearse goes past at 28s, 2nd one very shortly after. Cyclist then pulls into middle of lane (because of pinch point) holding up 3rd funeral car which then overtakes at 38s when he pulls back into left.
Cyclist pulls into middle of road again to overtake parked car, partially holding up white Civic in the process which then overtakes on wrong side of road at 45s. He continues to pull out to centre of road and the horn goes at 49s. He then goes to ground at 51s.
I'm sorry, but the gaps in the cortege are caused BY the cyclist.
The cortege is made up of a few stately cars, it seems unreasonable to me to expect ordinary cars thereafter to also be formally part of the procession.
And if it is a respectful procession, they should be going at little more than walking pace.
The driver was impatient, and knocked the cyclist over, and then his passenger threatened him.
They should have both been charged.
Quote from the bbc article amir posted:
"Other road users tend to be so impatient nowadays and their main concern is get to their end destination as quickly as possible, regardless of other traffic on the road," said Mr Collingwood.
@baldcyclist...
Your projection is revealing.
My first thought on watching the video (long before the rider was mown down from behind) was that there wasn't enough room to pass safely and the leading cars of the procession created the incident by skimming past when the road was shortly going to be obstructed.
Isn't it ironic that funeral directors are pleading for patience from motorists but treat cyclists, the most vulnerable people on the road, with such blatant disregard?
An alternative would have been for the lead car to wait behind the rider to give them the opportunity to notice the procession and potentially stop / turn off (or just go about their business). But cutting them up then getting angry that they've ended up in the middle? Dafties!
This having been done in no way excuses each successive driver's actions but to go further than that and say that the cyclist "held them up" or in some way was responsible for being taken out because of his mere presence on the highway is getting into Daily Fail territory - they couldn't pass because it wasn't safe, the cyclist was there already.
The ultimate disrespect to the deceased here was to risk maiming or killing another human being.
The idea that failing to leap off your bike and anxiously check an indeterminate number of cars for people wearing dark clothes is somehow disrespectful is laughable IMO.
@Baldcyclist
We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I do agree absolutely that respect has to be shown, and I myself have done and will continue to do so (though I have to admit that that doesn't extend to stopping when a hearse goes past me and checking cars after it to see if anyone is wearing black and only carrying on once I start seeing 'normal' clothed drivers).
But I disagree in the strongest sens ethat this rider was disrespectful, or that he caused the breaks in the cortege, or that anything he did could justify a suggestion that he contributed to the incident. The simple fact of the matter is the driver behind sounded his horn, knew the cyclist was there, and deliberately drove close enough to him that he could knock him off his bike, with the police suggesting that that's okay because the cyclist wasn't showing 'respect'.
Interacting OOPS EDIT Interesting difference of opinion of seeing exactly the same incident.
I haven't watched the vid.
Even more difficult/different when you are in the middle of it (not this one - just daily life).
That's one problem with (subject of the week) the NWC.
That starts with the notion 'we should all get on' but fails to recognise that most cyclists drive and most drivers don't cycle (apart from 'on holiday' - if at all.)
So not really a surprise that 'those who do' felt marginalised and blamed for not (apparently) being as nice as drivers.
Me personally? I would have stopped at the side of the road and waited if I was on a bike
I would give you that if it was a procession
IMO it was cars tanking along at a brisk speed
They pushed on at the pinch point too
given the speed,I would be more likely to assume they were going to a 'pick up' or returning from a funeral
"
Your projection is revealing.
"
How so?
"
This having been done in no way excuses each successive driver's actions but to go further than that and say that the cyclist "held them up" or in some way was responsible for being taken out because of his mere presence on the highway is getting into Daily Fail territory - they couldn't pass because it wasn't safe, the cyclist was there already.
"
I didn't. Frankly, this is offensive, and f you had read my earlier comment you would know, ...actually I'm not going to bother repeating my earlier comment.
Some previous comments had suggested he couldn't have known the other cars were part of the procession because of the gaps. All I was pointing out was that the gaps weren't already there, but instead caused by him - and in normal circumstances and in normal traffic caused perfectly reasonably by him - but in this instance, on seeing a funeral procession he should have shown respect, and stopped.
And in that respect the Police comments are correct, and why the officer who made them has been given the support of his superiors who have backed the comment.
Or to put it in a different perspective, I see two incidents here in a sense unrelated.
1. Car toots horn, then wilfully hits cyclist. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Can I be any stronger in my condemnation?
2. Guy gets passed by the first two cars of a funeral procession, then deliberately/thoughtlessly/whatever holds up the third, and forth and fifth cars in the procession, by travelling in the middle of the road. He is not aware of the importance of this event to the people concerned who are deeply upset watching their loved one disappear down the road, while this guy frankly appears not to give a sh**. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Can I be any stronger in my condemnation?
Oh my word - I've just seen the video - scary.
I have driven in funeral processions before. Really whether anything, let alone a cyclist, holds me up and breaks the cortege seems frankly irrelevant and trivial. The speed of the convoy seems on the upper end of slow by comparison with the cyclist's speed.
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