CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

20mph zones may go Scotland wide after Edinburgh trial

(589 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by crowriver
  • Latest reply from nedd1e_h

  1. crowriver
    Member

    'COMPULSORY 20mph traffic-calming zones may be introduced across cities and towns in Scotland following the success of a trial that improved road safety by cutting car speeds in residential areas.

    The pilot scheme was tested on 25 miles of streets on the south side of Edinburgh last year, and initial results show there were fewer accidents in the trial area and better conditions for walkers and cyclists.

    Edinburgh council is now considering extending 20mph zones to all residential and shopping streets and even some main roads, which would be the first scheme of its type in the country.

    Transport Scotland, the government’s transport agency, said once the trial had been fully evaluated it would advise other councils on how to
replicate Edinburgh’s success.

    However, though safety experts said compulsory 20mph zones were vital in cutting casualties and encouraging com­m­­uters to cycle, motoring groups said introducing them on too wide a scale could be counter-productive, especially if main roads were included.

    The campaign to reduce speeds follows significant improvements in the safety of motorists and passengers due to better vehicle and road
design. Consultants now warn the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed or seriously injured will overtake the casualty toll for those in cars within a few years.'

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/20mph-zones-may-go-scotland-wide-after-edinburgh-trial-1-3051253

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    VERY good that the 'pilot' has produced, measurable, stats.

    Some of 'us' thought was a bit half-hearted - bus routes largely excluded (Lothian Buses objected), little enforcement (L&BP said didn't have "resources").

    "
    Consultants now warn the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed or seriously injured will overtake the casualty toll for those in cars within a few years.

    "

    Which consultants?

    Can't decide if this is a 'scare story' or statistically possible without further measures (of various sorts).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. gibbo
    Member

    "Consultants now warn the number of pedestrians and cyclists killed or seriously injured will overtake the casualty toll for those in cars within a few years."

    Which consultants?

    Yes, you can usually find a consultant that's willing to say pretty much anything...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. WickyWocky
    Member

    Fantastic news. I hope it does cover main roads too - otherwise it's great for kids wanting to pop around to their mates round the corner but doesn't improve things for people wanting to get further.

    My husband was travelling at about 20mph when he was knocked off his bike by an overtaking bus. If the speed limit was 20mph the bus driver couldn't have tried the manoeuvre without seriously breaching the speed limit. That would've been one serious injury saved already.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "May go Scotland wide". Aren't Edinburgh council just a wee bit slow off the mark with this. All of Fife, and West Lothian, and large swathes of Lanarkshire already have 20mph limits in residential areas, have done for years! Borders too, and Fort William last time I was there.

    Anyway, should just be all residential areas anywhere, and if Edinburgh council wants to make its self sound clever with some soundbites, fine. But seriously, to suggest that they were ahead of the game...really?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. Klaxon
    Member

    On the point of LB, they drive slower at off peak hours, sticking to 20mph where the limit is 30 or even 40, then peak faster during busier daytime periods. Very frustrating.

    On the limit of 20 limits, I've made a point of sticking to them any time I've been thru Causewayside and pretty much been left with the feeling of not being held up. Town driving/cycling is more waiting on lights and less actually moving anywhere. The local 20mph limits here round Leith Walk are pretty self enforcing down to 15 anyway due to traffic calming and road width.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. Nelly
    Member

    "All of Fife, and West Lothian, and large swathes of Lanarkshire already have 20mph limits in residential areas, have done for years"

    So has Edinburgh - ie new estates etc are built that way, but in a city there are fewer opportunities to build and hence fewer chances to build in calming from the outset - the difference in this instance is that the south area 20 zone covers all areas, not just new build residential.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. Here's hoping that folk will stick to the limits, unlike everyone heading up from Nelly's and my workplace towards Ed Park Station. '20' signs all the way up, and every car doing at least double that because it's long and straight and there are always cyclists that they must get in front of...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. ""All of Fife, and West Lothian, and large swathes of Lanarkshire already have 20mph limits in residential areas, have done for years"

    So has Edinburgh - ie new estates etc"

    Not just the new places. I live in a 30s area and we've had 20mph on our side streets since before I moved in (6 years ago) and on the main roads for a good 3-4 years.

    The difference would basically be that ALL residential streets would be 20mph (I presume this wouldn't include the line of the A1 coming through Duddingston, Willowbrae, Meadowbank... All of which are residential).

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. AKen
    Member

    The centre of Aberdeen has had a blanket 20mph limit for more than five years.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  11. bdellar
    Member

    @threefromleith: That's exactly the problem. London Road outside Meadowbank is a 30 zone, but the road is ideal for doing 50 on. So people do.

    Build racetracks, and people will treat them as racetracks...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  12. PS
    Member

    Abercrombie Place and Albany Street have had 20s painted on them since they became the diversion for traffic bumped off York Place, but it's pretty rare that cars stick to that... When I do 20 along there I quickly lose ground on the car in front and today there was a lorry flying through the ped crossing at Dublin St at what seemed like upwards of 30.

    I'm hoping that once York Place is open again the road layout will revert to Dublin St having priority over Albany/Abercrombie - at least that calmed the traffic a bit.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  13. gibbo
    Member

    Yes, without any proper policing, the thing will be a joke.

    The number of times I'm rattling along at 28-30kph in the 20mph zone next to St Margarets... and seeing car after car pass me and zoom away...

    I don't know why the council/police can't have someone standing at these key areas with a speed gun. It would more than pay for itself in fines.

    And they wouldn't have to be there every day - they could rotate locations. The point would be to remind drivers there are speed limits and a price to pay for ignoring them.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  14. slowcoach
    Member

    Did anyone see the speed guns that Lidl (page 9) was selling for £80 last week?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  15. cb
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-to-be-first-20mph-city-to-boost-cycling-1-3057155

    "EDINBURGH is set to become the first 20mph city in Scotland under pioneering plans to boost walking and cycling.

    Speed limits will be reduced from 30mph in all residential areas, shopping districts and streets heavily used by 
pedestrians and cyclists.

    The city centre will also become a 20mph zone."

    Posted 4 years ago #
  16. gibbo
    Member

    A year’s trial in south-central Edinburgh saw motorists’ average speed fall by around 2mph to 20.9mph, however 75 per cent of cars were still being driven in excess of the speed limit.

    And the police/council are doing what about this law-breaking on a huge scale?

    I don't understand why there are no roving teams of police with speed guns. If you don't know where they'll be on any one day, you'd be more likely to obey the law.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  17. cc
    Member

    Our old friend Neil Greig of the IAM says something very sensible in that article:

    “With a long, straight road that is not built up, people tend to pick a speed to drive at based on the environment they are driving through.

    “If that environment doesn’t say 20mph then you are going to get a lot of people ignoring this.”

    Absolutely right.

    Unfortunately he also said: “Our concern is that if you go for a blanket approach, it will cover roads that are obviously safe to travel at 30mph."

    I don't think that Edinburgh has any such roads, does it? A road where it's quite safe for a car or lorry to go at 30mph while a child is cycling at 10mph?

    @gibbo It seems that road deaths are not nearly enough of a priority for the police.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  18. PS
    Member

    “Our concern is that if you go for a blanket approach, it will cover roads that are obviously safe to travel at 30mph."

    The Western Approach Road? Almost everywhere else has pedestrians looking to cross, cyclists, buses manouevring, dogs, etc.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Some comments on the trial's carried out in Fife 10 years ago which led to the blanket 20mph zones in Fife:

    Fife Council Website

    “Monitoring has shown that 81% of vehicles within these zones are now travelling below 25mph whereas this figure was previously 58% before the introduction of 20mph zones. This reduction in traffic speed will impact positively by reducing the severity of accidents and in turn help reduce Fife's crash statistics. It’s worth noting that in the mid Fife area, the average number of casualties before the introduction of 20 mph zones (2000 to 2003) was 73 and the 'after' period (2004 to 2006) was 56. This can only be good news for Fife.”

    Good that the data showed a marked improvement in casualties. Not so good that it was accepted that people will still speed, just slower.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  20. Baldcyclist
    Member

    One of my Facebook friends, who cycles everywhere, posted the article on Facebook, and commented....

    "
    This will spoil my cycle home... I easily get over 20mph going down Broughton St!
    "

    Apparently some cyclists oppose too?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  21. "Not so good that it was accepted that people will still speed, just slower."

    I've read that about 20mph zones before - definitely a positive that it means speeds are slower, but yeah, it's still a bit depressing that folk are so willing to break the law.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  22. PS
    Member

    This will spoil my cycle home... I easily get over 20mph going down Broughton St!

    Ignoring the question of whether the 20mph limit would apply to non-motorised vehicles...
    Broughton St is (was) a nice surface and you can get a fair bit of speed going down the hill (and I do), but should your friend really be doing upwards of 20mph on a busy shopping street where lots of peds cross the road?

    Posted 4 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "bit depressing that folk are so willing to break the law"

    Aye and they don't consider how it reflects badly on all other drivers...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  24. Calum
    Member

    Anyone who thinks a signs-only 20mph scheme will be obeyed is living in cloud cuckoo land!

    Posted 4 years ago #
  25. SRD
    Moderator

    Poll here http://bit.ly/17NdDEA

    Posted 4 years ago #
  26. gibbo
    Member

    "bit depressing that folk are so willing to break the law"

    Aye and they don't consider how it reflects badly on all other drivers..

    Given it's 75% of vehicles, the "other drivers" are very much in the minority.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  27. Nelly
    Member

    "Anyone who thinks a signs-only 20mph scheme will be obeyed is living in cloud cuckoo land"

    It does work, but only to the same extent as any signs only scheme - i.e. pretty much every road everywhere - so although 75% are doing more than 20, they are still going slower than before.

    In the same way as some people say 'whats the point in closing school streets during XYZ hours only' - if its a first step to full closure, then fine by me.

    20mph on almost all roads, including entire city centre? Yes please as an incremental step.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  28. SRD
    Moderator

    seeing media reports that this has been approved.

    i'm interested in seeing how the proposals under consultation have been amended, if at all - anyone seen this data?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. SRD
    Moderator

  30. shuggiet
    Member


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