@MeepMeep - the most recent Walker study found that the subsequent overtakes were progressively closer than the first, although this wasn't the primary focus of the study.
Robert
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"20mph limit to go ahead across Edinburgh"
(230 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Is there a notable gender bias behind the amount of space drivers give cyclists, or does it make not a jot of difference? (Gender of cyclist, and gender of driver).
I've had bad close overtakes from drivers of all genders.
the most recent Walker study found that the subsequent overtakes were progressively closer than the first, although this wasn't the primary focus of the study.
This seems only natural - the law of diminishing returns ;-) But it doesn't mean that the overtakings as a whole aren't better than if the original overtake had been average or too close.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Daniel O'Donnell (@DanielJODonnell)
16/01/2014 20:28
Just intro'd bill to make NYC speed lmt 20mph (unless Council gives specific exemption). 7 pedestrian deaths in 2014 already. 1 is too many!"
Posted 10 years ago # -
New 20mph. What's the point. I cycle around the Grange, Ratcliffe Terrace etc every day and 99% of the cars that pass me are speeding and often well over the 20mph. Putting signs up and declaring an area is 20mph isn't enough, it must be policed.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It depends what you want. Before they were doing 40mph in a 30, now they're doing 30mph in a 20. Still slower even though it's not in compliance with the law.
IIRC the wire monitors on west Saville and other streets in the 20mph zone showed 50% of vehicles were doing 20-25mph.
Not bad for a few quid on some throwaway signs?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Some monitoring of speed limit reductions has found that speeds tend go down by one quarter of the reduction in limit, varying in different conditions. So reducing the limit by 10mph doesn't mean speeds will go down by 10mph - more likely it would go down by 3mph. If the problem is that drivers are going 40 in a 30 I'd rather see the 30 enforced, instead of the 30 limit reduced.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I'd rather see the 30 enforced"
You are not unique in that wish - but there is not the manpower to do so, and I doubt there is the will to put speed cameras every 100 yards on every street.
I think the proposal is sensible.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think it was on CCE that I learned there are apparently only two police officers on duty out-of-hours for the whole of eastern Edinburgh (or something equivalently amazing).
When you consider that Edinburgh Council alone has 1,500km of streets you can see that physical enforcement is going to require an absolutely massive increase in spending.
That's not to say that I believe the current level of enforcement is correct, but it does say something for the scale of the issue.
It's annoying that the courts are responsible for handing out points instead of the DVLA. Fines and jail time, sure, but if points were decriminalised then the council could simply get NCP staff to do speed gun checks all over the city...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Lots of motorists think thank the speed limit is in fact the speed that you are legally obliged to drive at. So putting up the requisite signs will certainly slow their speed and consequently that of those behind them.
I just wish it was a blanket approach, applicable to every road inside of the bypass. A 'road safety' lobby group such as the IAM claims to be should realise that a few minutes on journey time is a small price to pay for a reduction in lives lost.Posted 10 years ago # -
Well, I finally had a go with doing 20 - 25 in a 30, and it was indeed like being a cyclist (or indeed a learner driver - though it is over 20 years since I was a learner...). 20 feels very slow, which I think suggests that you do get an idea of the speed you are supposed to be moving at wired into you - so if one got used to driving at 20, then 20 would then feel normal.
I got undertaken by drivers using the (not in use) bus lane on Corstorphine Road (hence my question on the other thread - in retrospect I think I should have been in the bus lane there as there's a long stretch that didn't have parked cars in).
(OT: on the way back I had my boyfriend & others in the car. Coming onto the Queensferry Road after coming up the hill from South Queensferry boyfriend said "What's with pootling at 40 all the way up there?"
"It is the speed limit," I replied...
"What, really?"
"Yes, really...")Posted 10 years ago # -
"...which I think suggests that you do get an idea of the speed you are supposed to be moving at wired into you"
One thing I've always fancied trying is comparing the apparent speed according to the speedometer in my wife's car with the apparent speed on my bike computer by arranging a simultaneous journey somewhere, as twenty in the car doesn't feel anywhere near as fast as twenty on a bike. I suppose I could use GPS for the same thing.
Posted 10 years ago # -
One thing I didn't realise was that (the unlit) Braid Hills Drive is a 50mph zone. Compare to a similar road Captains / Frogston which is lit and "only" a 40mph.
I would have been enjoying the lovely views and lack of light pollution on BHD the other night when I was up there if it wasn't for the motorway-like speeds adopted by those using it to shortcut between Liberton and Buckstone.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@fimm: I was driving through Livingston yesterday keeping to around 30-35 in the 40mph zones, partly as a result of the heavy rain but also because I didn't see any need to be going at 40 given the traffic volumes ahead.
A couple of cars did ridiculous overtakes but on each occasion I caught up with them almost immediately at the queue at the next roundabout.
I did get the sense that my speed was causing others to overtake impatiently, so were potentially dangerous to oncoming traffic. But if I'd been going at 40 they would probably have done the same anyway.
In short: you are right, people get used to doing a certain speed.
Posted 10 years ago # -
fimm is right. 20mph feels absurdly slow until you get used to it. (And it's an interesting driving challenge to get a car to stick to that speed.) After that 30mph feels horribly fast and unsafe - which it is of course on many urban streets.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Comparing car speedos with gps devices suggests that the speedos pretty consistently over-read by around 5mph. Would be interesting to compare bike computers and cars though.
Posted 10 years ago # -
You know those fancy signs that read and display your speed to you when driving? Some of them will happily pick up bikes too, that's one way of checking the calibration of your speedo.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Smudge: not in my decade-old mini; true 30mph = indicated 31mph...
Posted 10 years ago # -
@smudge, of the few cars I've tested all have over-read the speed, but I've always found it to be by a rough percentage rather than an absolute figure, so it gets 'worse' the faster you go.
Worst case was about 9% which would obviously equate to less than 3mph at 30.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The experience Gratz (the 1st place in the world to introduce a metropolitan wide 30Km/h speed limit) has been that when I was first introduced and enforced, there was a significant drop in traffic collisions (and subsequent injuries). After a few year they slacked off the enforced which resulted in an increase in collisions, so they had to start the enforcement again.
The important thing with the current CEC announcement is that they suggest they have the agreement of Police Scotland that the lower limit will be enforced. Time will tell...
Posted 10 years ago # -
My car consistently reads 3mph faster than what I'm actually driving at, no matter what speed I'm doing (over 20, admittedly).
For the past few years I've consistently driven no more than 30 in 30 zones, much to the annoyance of drivers behind me. Once used to it, it feels totally normal.
Posted 10 years ago # -
/bump of old thread
20mph ZONE 1
WORK COMMENCES
1 JUNE 2016SPEED LIMIT APPLIES
31 JULY 2016Posted 7 years ago # -
Interesting! Wasn't there this morning.
Of course this is the junction with London Road, where AFAIR the speed limit will remain at 30mph...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Of note here are a few amendments to the various TROs implementing the 20mph scheme.
Encouragingly, a number of roads and streets have been added into 20mph. More perplexingly, a few roads and streets have been REMOVED from 20mph.
Consultation documents including loads of maps here:
http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/2067/tro_16_74_–_various_roads_20_mph_amendments
If you agree with me that NO roads ought to be removed from 20mph, write to the Council with your comments/objections! I plan to strongly support the further inclusion of many additional streets and roads (including a section of London Road near Leith Walk), but oppose the removal of ANY sections of road from 20mph: what is the possible justification for such a move? No reasons are given other than "remove streets not required"!
Posted 7 years ago # -
Are you sure they have been removed from 20mph zoning? For instance they may already be 20mph or be deleted from one place in the trousers but left in others. The full statement of reasons is:
Statement of Reasons
On 12 January 2016 the Council approved a Citywide Traffic Regulation Order introducing a
20mph speed limit on a large number of city streets (TRO/15/17). Some streets were omitted
from this Order as a result of subsequent changes to the extent of the scheme, the inclusion of
new streets, errors in the original scoping exercise and a small number of streets already in
20mph zones requiring coverage. A number of necessary amendments to the Order are also
needed to introduce roads which were omitted, remove streets not required or to ensure that
streets are included in the correct implementation area. This Variation Order rectifies the
situation including correcting some errors from the previous Variation Orders (TRO/16/09B
Marshall’s Court to be moved from Area 2 to Area 1 and TRO/16/09D delete Laichpark
Place/Road from Area 3).Posted 7 years ago # -
Look at the maps. Streets have been removed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@acsimpson, the famous Bolshevik poet Boris Mayakovsky (died playing Russian roulette) described himself as not a man but a cloud in trousers. Now you are telling me you have streets in trousers? Oh wait, it is going to be TROs predictively?
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Neil Greig, the Institute of Advanced Motorists’ head of policy in Scotland, said he was surprised the council had not presented evidence of how the lower limit was working.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
I really don't understand why some of these particular streets are being removed from 20mph (and the others, I just don't know the street). Anyone going 20mph on that section of Bonaly Road is already going far too fast.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Thanks Crowriver. Trying to flick through the documents (and reply) on my phone were clearly too much for me last night.
Gembo yes indeed it was the wrong trousers.
Posted 7 years ago #
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