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How to cross the road?

(23 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by SRD
  • Latest reply from kaputnik
  • This topic is not resolved

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Can someone advise how a pedestrian is supposed to cross here?

    the only good thing about it is that the cars seem even less sure than I am, and take it very, very carefully.

    Unlike other intersections, they are also careful not to 'wave you across' because they realise that you cannot predict what other cars will do.

    But that means that at busy times, you stand at the corner while streams of traffic move around very, very slowly.

    Obviously not an area with a heavy footfall, except in mornings and afternoons because there are 2 schools and several nurseries in surrounding streets.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. amir
    Member

    This just emphasises the extent to which road design is driven by consideration of drivers rather than pedestrians and cyclists.

    I have been complaining to the council about Eskbank Toll, which is sometimes really busy and has 6 exits. It's hell for pedestrians and not great for cyclists.

    https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.888631,-3.080902&spn=0.001044,0.002411&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=55.888631,-3.080902&panoid=JvAAZmp0fHPUO6Otug8uyw&cbp=12,114.11,,0,3.8

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. PS
    Member

    Roundabouts are all about traffic flow, aren't they? Pedestrians don't register as traffic in the designers' minds, unfortunately.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I thoroughly dislike those painted-on roundabouts. Some motorists treat it as a regular roundabout and give way right and go around it. Others drive over the top. Some give way, others don't. It makes it very difficult to work out who's going to do what when they arrive at it.

    There's something to be said for US-style four-way stop / go if it's clear junctions.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Min
    Member

    I loathe mini roundabouts. They are so dangerous. As PS says, it is all about traffic flow and might is right at them. Cyclists and pedestrians just have to get out of the way.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. PS
    Member

    There's something to be said for US-style four-way stop / go if it's clear junctions.

    There's a lot to be said for them, really. They require eye contact and negotiation with others, rather than the usual "I have right of way" blithely following the signs without paying attention approach that the UK's spoonfeeding of drivers promotes.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. Uberuce
    Member

    Given how knackered the surfacing is on those mini-roundabout, it's surely time they were redone anyway, during which they could just be normal junctions?

    I'm never there at school pickup times, but almost daily at ~6.10pm and they're nigh-deserted then.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. SRD
    Moderator

    When there is traffic at that mini roundabout, it nearly always does function as described above -- eye contact and negotiation - , with the exception that something (the slope of the road creating glare?) makes it quite hard to actually make eye contact, which increases the uncertainty/tentativeness.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. cc
    Member

    If I was faced with that as a pedestrian, and there was any motor traffic about, I'd turn around and go another way, or walk along the road until I could find somewhere safe to cross.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Morningsider
    Member

    I think the intention here was to slow the traffic travelling down Spylaw Road, without installing speed bumps. Previously, traffic could speed down Spylaw Road unhindered. Installing the mini-roundabouts requires drivers on Spylaw Road to slow down and pay attanetion at side streets.

    The schools and nurseries are actually the problem here (okay, the parents dropping of their kids are the problem) - these are quiet roads at all but school drop off/pick up time. What is the best way to slow the traffic at these peak times, without spending much money or "incoveniencing" local residents?

    I'm not saying I think they were a good idea - but I can see how they came about.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. SRD
    Moderator

    Yes, much of the 'traffic' is parents dropping kids off. but there is quite a lot of foot traffic as well - at least in good weather. Everytime I've been through recently - morning and night - there are always other pedestrians as well.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. panyagua
    Member

    There's a lot to be said for them, really. They require eye contact and negotiation with others

    Interestingly, this article highlights almost the opposite view (if you read to the end).

    I can't really comment on the effectiveness of this particular mini roundabout, but I don't think give-way or signalled junctions are necessarily 'better', for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes, 'flow' is good for cyclists too. The article does quote statistics that accidents at roundabouts are typically less serious than those at lights, perhaps because the traffic is forced to slow down?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. PS
    Member

    I'm not sure - the quotes seem to be more about the mythical american psyche rather than what they do at junctions.

    But maybe I'm misunderstanding. For instance, this:
    "We like right angles, yes and no answers, Manichean explanations. Roundabouts require more subtlety than we're used to."
    is posited as an argument against roundabouts and pro stoplines. But roundabouts provide clear yes and no answers - is there a car coming from the right (in the UK)? Yes = give way, no = go.

    When everyone has a stopline then you have to work out who's going to go first.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. panyagua
    Member

    I suppose the point is that with a roundabout, judgement is required in order to decide whether there's enough time and space to proceed ahead of the approaching vehicle.

    With four-way stop junctions, if I understand them correctly, vehicles should proceed in the order that they arrived at the junction, which is a clear and unambiguous rule.

    I've never driven or cycled in the USA so can't say whether or not this is what actually happens in practice.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. PS
    Member

    With four-way stop junctions, if I understand them correctly, vehicles should proceed in the order that they arrived at the junction, which is a clear and unambiguous rule.

    Ah, okay. I suppose the key point is you (in theory) stop, look at all exits, then proceed. Whereas roundabouts reduce the effort you need to expend as you just have to look to your right (in theory, at least. With a mini roundabout like SRD's photo above, all bets are off and you need to look at all exits.)

    Whether people actually stop or look may be another matter, I guess.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. gembo
    Member

    Look right, look left, look right again.

    Cross one section when safe

    Look right, look left, look right again

    Cross to the next section when safe,

    Continue until you reach your desired destination

    Take your time as looks to be tricky, tho the picture is empty

    Regards

    tufty

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. allebong
    Member

    I come down Spylaw road quite often from Bruntsfield as an alternative to the canal. I can see why they wouldn't want traffic being able to go the whole length unimpeded, especially by the schools. Still the roundabouts make me nervous - it seems to me that if you're on Spylaw road you should have priority over traffic coming off the sidestreets if you both get to the roundabouts at the same time. It's quiet enough that I've never had any trouble at least.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. crowriver
    Member

    http://t.co/b9UE0Xv3PN

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. neddie
    Member

    I'm not sure if its the same mini-roundabout as the one shown, but there is a lot of traffic at rush hour(s) on Gillsland Rd which intersects Spylaw Rd.

    I suspect most of this traffic is rat-running.

    These mini-r-bouts here can be pretty nasty when cycling, as the road is wide, and even if you are brave enough to hold primary, you still get overtaken on approach to the r-bouts, then they slow down in front of you and force you left.

    I've seen plenty of traffic doing well in excess of 30 on Spylaw Rd, which is quite shocking given the schools & nurseries along it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  20. neddie
    Member

    Also, I've noticed at the r-bouts, that sometimes drivers 'forget' who has right of way, and wait for you even when they have priority!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  21. SRD
    Moderator

    Yup. that's Gillsland & Spylaw.

    I don't enjoy it cycling, but have now discovered how much worse it is walking.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  22. Nelly
    Member

    I cycle spylaw almost every day each way, and quite like it!

    I am a fan of roundabouts though, they slow traffic and (generally) make me feel safer.

    Understand why others don't like them though.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  23. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I am a fan of roundabouts though

    Roundabouts perhaps, but a painted roundabout is about as useful as forcing a car around it as a painted cycle lane is at preventing a car driving / parking in it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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