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Architecture SQ (@ArchitectureSQ)
16/09/2013 13:08
@SpokesLothian This is a duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision, and Route 1 is downgraded by it
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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"duff scheme with poor pedestrian and cycle provision" South Queensferry
(177 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Comments now closed, however...
The plans for this housing estate appear to want to build over the existing path that connects Scotstoun Avenue with the closed road that is a continuation of Dalmeny Main Street, across the railway.
There is a new path on the plans on a similar alignment that runs into the centre of the estate and then just stops.
Posted 10 years ago # -
This planning application represents a vital shot in the arm for the hard pressed construction industry.
That path was crap anyway. Stopped using it years ago.
Scotstoun Avenue is the worst through route -- bad overtaking, pinch points, and junction conflict.
If you're going via Dalmeny, then Station Road is far more traffic managed and predictable.
Posted 10 years ago # -
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Alison Chisholm (@isonisholm)
17/09/2013 10:19
@ArchitectureSQ @CyclingEdin @SpokesLothian reading the design & access statement it sounds like exemplar in improved community connectivity"
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Architecture SQ (@ArchitectureSQ)
17/09/2013 11:37
@isonisholm @CyclingEdin @SpokesLothian great intentions for Planning in Principal, binned in actual designs. Designs don't reflect text!"
Posted 10 years ago # -
The map doesn't show any encroachment onto the tree lined avenue or path between the existing path. I expect no changes to the path or route other than more traffic on that route, heading in the opp direction at commuter times.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Scotstoun Avenue is the worst through route -- bad overtaking, pinch points, and junction conflict.
If you're going via Dalmeny, then Station Road is far more traffic managed and predictable.
I supposed we're creatures of habit to an extent, but since Agilent closed I've found Scotstoun Avenue to be one of the more pleasant stretches of my commute: quiet, wide, level and smooth. On the few occasions I've tried using Station Road, I've hated it, for exactly the same reasons you avoid Scotstoun Avenue. It also involves significant descent/reascent to/from the FRB.
The current path linking Dalmeny to Scotstoun Avenue is not perfect but it's generally fine. As it appears to be doomed, we'll be forced to detour via a new estate, and probably elsewhere while it's being built - Station Road maybe?
I wish we could be confident that a new development would result in better cycle infrastructure, but of course that would cost the "hard-pressed construction industry" more money. That site is ideally placed for cycling to the city centre, and the new development has the potential to tempt existing or new cycle commuters to buy houses there, if well designed. But as usual, we're getting the same tired old rubbish being thrown up, on the assumption that we all want to live in bland homogenous boxes and spend our lives sitting in our Audis on bypasses and queuing for petrol at Tesco.
However, looking at the positive... I do notice there are some cycle stores in the scheme, and the proposed cycle path does appear to link to Scotstoun Ave via a short stretch of road, so maybe there's hope...
Posted 10 years ago # -
The map doesn't show any encroachment onto the tree lined avenue or path between the existing path
Reading through the guff;
"The cycleway on the western boundary of the
site is rightly re-routed through the new neighbourhood.
The connection at the north west corner of the site has been
removed, with agreement from CEC planning, due to level
issues and current local authority guidance regarding ‘access for all’."Which was my above point. It runs into the centre of the new development and stops dead. Then it's time to bail out and find your own way on the roads. The "spine" referred to in multiple places in the documents does not offer a contiguous through route.
Posted 10 years ago # -
DaveC - just seen your post. If that's correct, then as you say the only result will be more (probably *lots* more) traffic on Scotstoun Ave. I would have been surprised if they were building on the existing path - it's an important bit of green space for the existing residents and their dogs, so can't imagine its demise would have been very popular locally.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@kappers, the new cycleway as they are calling it appears to connect to a roundabout/turning circle which then connects to Scotstoun Avenue.
Presumably if one is travelling to South Queenferry itself rather than FRB, then one can either:
- turn off at Dalmeny onto the railway path to South Queensferry
- use Station Road insteadIt's possible the new development may enhance connectivity compared to what is there just now, which is convoluted and a bit rubbish.
The loss of school playing fields seems a bit of a contentious issue!
Posted 10 years ago # -
Does look from the map that the cycle provision will be unafected. Scotstoun Ave may be quiet, but drivers coming out of the side streets tend not to look because of that, that is where I got hit by one such motorist a year and a half ago.
As with most modern estates, cycle/pedestrian provision will be non existent.
Posted 10 years ago # -
that is where I got hit by one such motorist a year and a half ago.
Hope you were OK. Never had an issue myself, but hearing that... I'll be watching out from now on. I do always eyeball anyone I see approaching from the side, just in case.
If there's one benefit of the new scheme - Scotstoun Ave will be busier, so drivers won't be so keen to take chances when pulling out of side streets.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Scotstoun Ave will be busier, so drivers won't be so keen to take chances
I admire your boundless optimism
Mostly I'm a B800 / Standingstane Road man
But Dalmeny / Station Road on the way back, sometimes
Posted 10 years ago # -
I admire your boundless optimism.
Clutching at straws, I admit. I'm not really looking forward to that whole area being busier with what amounts to an entire 'village' (I use the term loosely) being built.
Might try B800/Standingstane Rd for a change... any tips?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Once you're on the Kirkliston Road, there's couple of blind bends that you need to be alert and protect your position on, but other than that, its plain sailing.
Try it on the way in to town, as it can be a different proposition on the way back.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Thanks - I'll give it a go later in the week.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I admit. I'm not really looking forward to that whole area being busier with what amounts to an entire 'village' (I use the term loosely) being built.
"Banlieu" might be more appropriate
Posted 10 years ago # -
Bumping this, partly because of forthcoming work on A90.
Not an area I know, but seems to be used by people who also use A90 and Dalmeny routes.
Any news/developments?
Posted 10 years ago # -
No signs apparent. The sign over the old Agilent sign still says for sale.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 9 years ago #
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the assumption that we all want to live in bland homogenous boxes and spend our lives sitting in our Audis on bypasses and queuing for petrol at Tesco.
In fairness, quite a large number of folk seem to do exactly that. Whether they truly "want" to do so is a complex issue to examine in detail. Suffice to say our society seems adept at producing such "wants" in surprisingly large quantities!
Posted 9 years ago # -
Work begun and has been for about a month now. They are encroaching on the path but they have extended the path and I hope there won't be too much disruption before they finish.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I noticed on Tuesday that the Dalmeny Park development has made some changes to the new spine path through the site while I've been holidaying.
They have started work on the second path (near the railway bridge) which will have stepped access to the site. Presumably this is to encourage cyclists to use the central path, although I suspect will do more to inconvenience any pedestrians with wheels.
The main path which will form part of NCN 1 however now looks like the picture below. As far as I can tell there is no mention of a chicane on the planning application so assume the developers have decided to add one themselves. IIRC new chicanes should be 3m apart but these appear to be closer than that. If this is correct does anyone have a link to the specification which the developers could be pointed to?
Posted 7 years ago # -
I can't find any chicanes marked on the drawings either. Planning application 13/03310/AMC has a number of non-material variations, and correspondence about the relocation, to the east, of the cycle route.
This chicane would certainly be injurious to the routes of many Edinburgh-bound SQ/FRB cycle commuters.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Here's a link to Cycling by Design, which sets out the specification for chicane design in section 6.5.2:
http://www.transport.gov.scot/report/j185500-06.htm#design2
Just scroll right down to the bottom of the page to see it. Unfortunately, the 3m separation distance is a "desirable" minimum and not mandatory.
Posted 7 years ago # -
In general, the council's taken that 3m pretty seriously, unless there's reason not to. Recommend you raise it immediately with the cycling@edinburgh.gov.uk account. Let me know if you don't want to and I will.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Thanks Morningsider, reading that they are failing in so many ways. eg, no proven need for access controls, if there was bollards would be preferred and the chicane they have gone for is substandard.
I read the guidance after passing it tonight so can't make a proper estimate but guess it may also be within 5m of the junction.
SRD, I've emailed them and you should have a copy.
Whatever they build will be an improvement on the previous gate bypass but that's not an excuse to ignore guidelines.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Thank you, acsimpson. That new barrier looks pointless and annoying.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yes I'd agree with it's pointlessness, especially as it will likely just create a desire line in the surrounding dirt. I can't see that argument holding sway with the developers though so my push is to ensure it is at least minimally obstructive.
I've had a good dialogue with Cala today. They PM I spoke to knew exactly which barrier I was talking about and knew it was currently only a temporary structure. He will catch up with the technical design team on Monday and see what their take on it is before getting back to me.
Barratt meanwhile don't seem to be interested in talking to anyone who isn't in the process of buying a house from them.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@panyagua
"I've found Scotstoun Avenue to be one of the more pleasant stretches of my commute: quiet, wide, level and smooth. On the few occasions I've tried using Station Road, I've hated it"
Ditto.
Last time I rode Station Road, I found the surface incredibly poor - even by Edinburgh standards.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Station Rd for the win
Took me six years to make that switch
Scotstoun Ave's fast pinchpoints had me chasing motons up into cul de sacs for retribution
Methods were unsound
Posted 7 years ago #
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