CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Sentient beings

(337 posts)
  • Started 4 years ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from jules878

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  1. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's not just cars "leaving the road" or magically "flipping over" which are sentient now.

    Women survive 'savage attack' from tree in Wolterton.

    That's right, "savagely attacked" by a falling tree.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    Clearly ancient pagan beliefs are lying just under the surface of our supposedly 'space age' society...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  3. amir
    Member

    Well, that cattle grid jumped out at me and stabbed my front tyre to death.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  4. Uberuce
    Member

    The canal's a fetid viper that lies in wait for the unwary cyclist and strikes in the dead of night.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  5. steveo
    Member

    I think any mountain biker will tell you all trees are in fact Huorns and are quite capable of sudden malicious changes in position.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The reference to Huorns made me think of Uberuce as "Canalbeard", able to commune with the duckweed.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  7. Dunny
    Member

    "The canal's a fetid viper that lies in wait for the unwary cyclist and strikes in the dead of night."

    @Uberuce, I haven't stopped laughing at this comment for about the past 10 minutes.

    It's funny because it's true.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    Probably was one of these trees from the Wizard of Oz:

    Oh and one of the "savage attack" victims believes in guardian angels too, it seems.

    Posted 4 years ago #
  9. Dunny
    Member

    The driver thought it looked quite decorative. And I'm off laughing again...

    Posted 4 years ago #
  10. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-25963780

    It is believed the car, an automatic, began revving uncontrollably. The woman tried to put it in park, but that meant going through reverse gear. The car then accelerated backwards.

    I'm assuming the car has no accelerator and no brakes.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. allebong
    Member

    Link is giving me a 404 error?

    To be fair you can have throttle cables jam or the electronic equivalent mess up. As for braking, I'm not actually sure what would win between an engine screaming at full pelt vs the brakes, not something I really want to find out for myself I must say.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. slowcoach
    Member

    Car reverses into Royston bungalow kitchen - is that it?

    Could they not have switched off the ignition?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    When trees attack from Television Tropes and Idioms.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. le_soigneur
    Member

    Actually this Citroen looks like one of those "fly by wire" cars. Turning off the ignition does not involve twisting a key, it involves pressing the start button for five seconds- long enough to smash across your driveway into your neighbours when one of the fuel sensors goes haywire and fools the ECU("Computer") into firing the fuel injectors more(the foot throttle does not connect to the engine, it sends a demand signal to the ECU.
    So the only thing that would work is the footbrake- that is the one thing that connects via servo direct to the brake calipers (even the handbrake is electronic). The footbrake easily wins against a revving engine in any gear - just think how long it takes a car to accelerate versus how long it takes for the brakes to stop the wheels spinning and induce a skid.
    These type of cars are more prevalent now, all the stop-start idling cars are of this type. Fine, until something goes wrong.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. allebong
    Member

    I remember when there was much talk about the electronic throttle on some Toyotas as it was allegedly going a bit haywire and accelerating the car by itself. I've always thought it a bit un-nerving when mechanical systems are replaced by computers for something very critical like a throttle. If you want a real horror story set aside some time (not before going to bed, trust me) and read the report of the Therac 25 accidents, that's some real stomach churning stuff yet a fascinating study on our trust and relationships with computers. Nowadays as I understand it pretty much all airliners are fly by wire and heavily computer controlled, and I recall one episode of air crash investigation where there was a brand spanking new airbus crashed when flying low at a demonstration run. Plane was programmed to sense flying slowly with the nose up as a stall and to pitch down, while the pilot was trying to pull up, end result a whole lot of controversy over who was to blame. Of course in other accidents the cause was that the pilots overuled or ignored the perfectly correct computer, which comes down to choosing whether you want a human that can make a mistake in direct control of the plane, or computers to intervene and take over, though they've of course been programmed by equally error prone humans - tough stuff.


    'The footbrake easily wins against a revving engine in any gear'

    I'm genuinely wondering about this, as I've seen accounts of vehicles with jammed throttles and the drivers ending up burning out the brakes trying to stop them, though I imagine it's much harder with the car already going. Engine can just as easily accelerate the wheels up to a skid as the brakes can slow them down to one, so it's not that clear cut. I'm thinking particularly a rear wheel drive only car with the weaker brakes at the back you might end up with the back wheels spinning but the car not moving from the front brakes still holding. Front wheel drive car, powerful engine in 1st gear vs powerful brakes? It'd be great to have some empirical proof, but I don't imagine anyone being too keen to blow up their engine/brakes/gearbox/clutch to answer it, so I'll have a wee google about and see what I can find.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. le_soigneur
    Member

    The jammed throttle burning up the brakes is because the driver tries to do it slowly. Brake fade due to heat build-up is a well know mechanism. The trick is to throw all the braking you can muster at it in one go until the engine speed drops off and stalls, before the heat builds up.
    In this specific case of an automatic, the engine won't stall, but at least it won't go anywhere apart from hitting the noise barrier/rev limiter.
    Toyota are currently being sued in the USA for millions by the estate of a state trooper who was fatally propelled from 65mph to 140mph due to ECU malfunction because he didn't hold the start button long enough to take out the ignition and then he didn't put the brake through the floor and keep it there.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. Snowy
    Member

    Yep. Never hover on the brake. Footbrake, no matter how crap, on absolutely any roadworthy car, will stop the car in very short order, regardless of what the engine is doing. If you repeatedly make a proper arse of the procedure, new bits of clutch and/or gearbox may be required.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. le_soigneur
    Member

    Here's the detail on Unintended Acceleration (UA) Toyota lawsuit/judgement, some good stuff in the comments (as well as some irrelevant anecdotal stuff)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. fimm
    Member

    The Therac 25 incident is interesting (with my software tester's hat on), thank you for that link.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. le_soigneur
    Member

    Here's the sorry saga of the GM Ignition Switch fault & lawsuit (hardware, not software)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. nedd1e_h
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/driver-killed-in-black-day-on-city-s-roads-1-3383440

    ...his car careered 30 feet off a road...

    ...the car left the road before it flipped and smashed into the greenhouse...

    “It looks as if it spun in mid-air. It hit a street light and a fence together at an angle. The car must have flipped and fallen 30ft"

    Elsewhere in the Capital yesterday, a car and a caravan landed on their roofs

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-27924818

    "Car rolls over on busy Glasgow road"

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. Uberuce
    Member

    "Police are looking for a man seen in the area carrying a bag of car treats."

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-28460739

    Flying car smashes into first floor of house

    A car careered off the road, flew through the air and smashed into the first floor of a house in Lincolnshire.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    Took out a bedroom. Spalding again

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. Min
    Member

    I saw this story too and was going to post it here but you got there first. :-)

    Almost (but not quite) unbelievably the driver is probably not getting charged.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. gembo
    Member

    Maybe driver is a builder and has promised to rebuild the UPSTAIRS bedroom before the occupants return?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Man, 54, critically injured by car.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28547364

    One can only hope that the car is apprehended, prosecuted and garaged.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. sallyhinch
    Member

    My mum did once forget to put the handbrake on her car and the next thing she knew it rolled past the window of the tea shop she was sitting in and savagely attacked a shed. You can't take your eyes off them for a minute.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @sallyhinch

    Was the shed wearing a helmet?

    Posted 3 years ago #

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