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Leith Walk Project

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  1. Calum
    Member

    Actually, if you look closely there are *still* give-way markings on the cycleways at the junctions with Albert Street and Shrub Place Lane.

    The junction with Brunswick Street has very poor visual priority for cycling, because of the way the kerbline curves round across the cycleway - this will very much create the impression that drivers have priority. I tried to explain this at the consultation (this one, in Brighton, gives much clearer priority to cyclists in my opinion: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fredpipes/7407023244 - not my pic), but as usual Edinburgh council knows best.

    There will be left-hooks galore when this is built. What a shambles.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. UtrechtCyclist
    Member

    The Leith Walk TRO will be coming out soon, and I suspect that the designs that came out on Friday are intended to be those put to the TRO consultation.

    Just a quick question, how does a TRO consultation work, is there the possibility for significant changes to be made as a result of feedback from the consultation, or is it effectively a binary decision of accept/reject? Do we have to get all the changes that we want to see incorporated into the designs that are consulted on, or is there still opportunity for change later?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. neddie
    Member

    Hi,

    I’m a postgraduate student at Heriot-Watt University and am in the processes of completing my final dissertation project. For this project I’m investigating the role of public participation in planning for active travel infrastructure in Edinburgh, with a particular focus on the improvements to Leith Walk. As part of this research I’m hoping to capture data which will allow me to report on the views and experiences of stakeholders who have been participated in the planning process for this development, i.e. attended meetings, spoken with Local Authority or developer representatives, viewed development plans etc. As such, I was hoping you, or a representative from your organisation would be willing to complete a short, anonymous, online survey, which can be found at the following link - https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/PDHLK7W

    Your participation in this research would be greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks and best regards,

    David Allan

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "

    EdinburghTravelNews (@edintravel)
    20/07/2015 10:51
    Leith Walk - lane closures at Haddington Place on Mon & Tues. Central island being removed ahead of tower crane delivery at w/e #edintravel

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. cb
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/susan-rae-time-to-vote-for-leith-walk-1-3842618

    "
    how can visitors to St James be encouraged to use public transport to reduce traffic congestion?

    That last point is important because only a minority of people in Leith Walk own a car and more people walk or cycle to work than drive. It’s called Leith Walk for a reason. There have been some bold statements about how local streets can be made safer and friendlier for cyclists and pedestrians; these need turned into action. Could Leith Walk be a little more Dutch or Danish? Let’s make it happen!
    "

    "
    Susan Rae lives in Pilrig and is the Green candidate for the Leith Walk by-election on September 10
    "

    So, possibly more advert than opinion.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. Klaxon
    Member

    All I want from this project is to be able to cycle from my place just off LW up to Forest Row/Meadows without being subjected to the current shitshow of weaving motor traffic. Just, let me forget about it. Current project already fallen short as unwilling to enforce waiting in on road lanes. Hopefully the tram project fixes this as what has been installed is as close to a blank canvas as it gets.

    Current commute Easter Rd to Holyrood Park is bugging me as well. Oh to have proper space to climb Abbeymount :/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. Roibeard
    Member

    I've just been told by Transport Scotland's Head of Standards that "Cycling by Design" is not binding on local authorities.

    So if the intent is to provide priority for the cycleway, we don't have to use Cycling by Design's mistaken four way give way. I'm sure the latter is a transcription error in any case...

    However, I'm guessing that conservatism and the desire not to trailblaze will win out, and the flawed design will be attractive simply because the local traffic engineers can blame someone else for the mistake - they were just following published guidance.

    Pity we can't get folk to follow the Dutch manuals with such blind faith...

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    Sent to CCE by email

    "

    via
    https://my.edinburgh.gov.uk/app/report_it_forms/report_a_pavement_or_road_problem

    I visited Edinburgh by car a week ago. Your city centre roads (I named just one, Leith Walk, just to be able to use your system) are in atrocious states and form dangers to cars, let alone pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists. Surely you have a statutory obligation to prevent roads deteriorating to such awful extents?
    What is wrong with the road? What’s not wrong with the road? Cracked/Broken, Crumbling surface, Dislodges, Gap/crack, Open joint, Pothole, Depression/Sunken, Uneven Surface all apply

    "

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. ih
    Member

    What is the rationale in the road markings at the foot of the Walk going north?

    The on road bike lane (which is actually quite good up to this point) at about 30 to 40 metres from the junction take some bizarre twists and turns.

    It starts outside the parking places (good) but then veers to the right of a bus stop (so buses have to cross the bike lane). Then after the bus stop, the bike lane lurches to the left with the bus lane now to the right of it (so buses have to cross the bike lane again). Then, approaching the actual junction, the bike lane twists to the centre of the road, with a left turn vehicle filter lane to its left (so vehicles turning left have to cross the bike lane yet again). Finally it ends in an ASL which covers the two lanes for going straight on to Constitution St, but not the left turn lane, so just at the point when you might want to get ahead of a left turning bus or truck, you can't.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. mkoerner
    Member

    Cars loading/parking on cycle lanes

    It was mentioned in this thread that cars loading/parking on cycle lanes have been fined and the issue has been solved - however, I really cannot see an improvement. Last Friday evening around 6pm I passed 11 cars loading/parking on the cycle lane - amongst them 3 La Favorita cars.

    I feel that the constant swerving in and out of the main traffic lane is quite dangerous.
    What can I do? Where can I report it? Who can help?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. dougal
    Member

    @mkoerner I don't know but I wish I knew. We have line-of-sight on the stop outside Harp & Castle which is a hotbed of loading, taxi waiting and other vehicular chicanery.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. Klaxon
    Member

    Not yet noted? Leith Central CC has drawings as are going be to submitted as TRO for Albert St to McDonald Rd. Not done a full spot the difference but they look great

    http://leithcentralcc.co.uk/2015/09/01/repairing-leith-walk-from-brunswick-street-to-dalmeny-street/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. Roibeard
    Member

    I've just been told by Transport Scotland's Head of Standards that "Cycling by Design" is not binding on local authorities.

    So if the intent is to provide priority for the cycleway, we don't have to use Cycling by Design's mistaken four way give way. I'm sure the latter is a transcription error in any case...

    Transport Scotland have got back to me - they've acknowledged that Cycling by Design doesn't give cycleways true priority, but that was their intent. Since drivers may not have experience giving way to cycleways, they instruct the cyclists to give way too. I've responded that this will result in might makes right...

    They've also reiterated that local authorities don't need to follow what they consider to be their "best practice guidance". Of course, it would be a brave engineer to go against published national best practice!

    <sigh>

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. PS
    Member

    Transport Scotland have got back to me - they've acknowledged that Cycling by Design doesn't give cycleways true priority, but that was their intent. Since drivers may not have experience giving way to cycleways, they instruct the cyclists to give way too.

    That's pretty much word for word what the (sympathetic) official at the Pilrig St to McDonald Road consultation told me when I said the cycleways must have priority if they wanted people to use them. It's a self-perpetuating philosophy. And a rather disappointing view of human behaviour.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. Calum
    Member

    @Roibeard
    "They've also reiterated that local authorities don't need to follow what they consider to be their "best practice guidance". Of course, it would be a brave engineer to go against published national best practice!"

    Glasgow City Council has repeatedly ignored what Cycling by Design has to say on this issue. Take a look on Streetview at, for example:

    > Waterloo Street, at the Waterloo Lane junction
    > Elderslie Street, at the Kent Road junction
    > London Road, at the London Way junction

    The designs are mediocre but the intention to give priority to cyclists is unambiguous.

    Last year, I met a GCC officer working on the Tradeston cycle route, another two-way segregated route that's currently under construction and nearly finished. This will run along West Street, Scotland Street, and Shields Road. He told me that "there's no reason cyclists wouldn't have priority" (that is a direct quotation) at the large number of side roads and private accesses.

    So there you go! It can be done. Edinburgh council simply chooses not to.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. Roibeard
    Member

    Unfortunately, their choice means they have the "just following best practice" excuse. No Few councils will risk the exposure of doing something other than best practice, and potentially face defending that independent decision if there are injuries or fatalities.

    I will flag up Glasgow's precedent however, as at least the risk adverse can say - Glasgow did it first...

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Few councils will risk the exposure of doing something other than best practice

    I'd argue that Edinburgh is more than happy to do this, otherwise it could never have come up with novelty bike lanes like George Street; with cycle lanes looping different directions around a central statue on one junction, running on one side on another and running down the other side at the third, with a mix of lights and zebra crossings and imaginary (but signalled) access points at either end. It takes a special type of lateral thinking to look at a piece of road and think "what this cycle lane needs is to swap sides of a thoroughfare half way along. Oh and there's not nearly enough streetjunk blocking the views at each junction, lets add a forest of two-tiered planters".

    The council are constantly coming up with new and quite frankly rubbish and in nobodies' best or even faintly adequate practice book. Their approach to the installation of tactiles infact is completely contrary to all the specifications and best practice around their use.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. Klaxon
    Member

    Would removing the pointless give ways in the future be a TRO job or just a change of design and man with a burning gun. If the latter, maybe not a total disaster.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/trams-and-bins-key-issues-in-leith-walk-by-election-1-3881818

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. Min
    Member

    The SNP candidate leaflet was very interesting. Apparently he spent four years bumming at university at taxpayers expense getting a degree he had no intention of ever using. Then as soon as he graduated he bummed off around the world for six years. Now he is back and wanting us to elect him so he can... well I don't know. The leaflet only talked about him.

    If he gets in I may be adding to the filth problems by throwing up.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. ih
    Member

    Looks like La Favorita creates its own micro-climate of congestion. Last night about 9.30, there were 9 cars stopped in the south bound cycle lane. Of those, 7 were outside LF and 5 of them were La Favorita's own.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. SRD
    Moderator

    there was a suggestion on twitter that we should all park our bikes in lafavorita one evening...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. The Boy
    Member

    @ih,

    See my post on the bad driving thread from the other day - exactly the same number of vehicles blocking the cycle lane then too. It's a recurring theme, as it is the whole length of the road tbh.

    Shouldn't have bothered spending the money on it if they were unable/had no intention of ensuring the cycleway could be kept clear. No infrastructure is better than bad infrastructure, imo.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. PS
    Member

    Shouldn't have bothered spending the money on it if they were unable/had no intention of ensuring the cycleway could be kept clear. No infrastructure is better than bad infrastructure, imo.

    The whole sorry north Leith Walk cyclelane saga has proved that relying on enforcement is not enough.

    For whatever reason, "otherwise law abiding citizens" do not care about paint on the tarmac and aren't scared of the odd ticket or two (if they are *very* unlucky - it seems to me that you are more likely to get a ticket for overstaying your welcome in an Edinburgh parking bay than for double-yellow parking). And when you do get a ticket, the righteousness of your anger is re-enforced by all your pals and the EEN whinging about "blue meanies" like a bunch of pouty children.

    Cyclelanes need to be protected from cars (by parked cars, kerbs, complete separation, whatever) just as much as cyclists need to be protected from cars by segregation.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. fimm
    Member

    @SRD or just surround all the double-parked cars with cyclists and delay them by force of numbers? (Rather more serious civil disobedience than merely filling a restaurant with bicycles...)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. Edinburgh Cycle Training
    Member

    "there was a suggestion on twitter that we should all park our bikes in lafavorita one evening..."

    I'd be happy to sit on my bike outside LF's door one Friday or Saturday night. it wouldn't take that many of us to severely hamper access/egress for their delivery divers and customers.

    TBH, one good nights protest might be enough for them to get the message. Esp if an EEN photographer was on hand. mr Crolla would hate the bad publicity

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Ed1
    Member

    There does not seem to be much enforcement in Leith walk, I not sure enforcement could be considered to have failed when its possibly a lack of enforcement that has resulted in the cycling up the walk being difficult at time. Personally I think the lay out reasonable better than it was at least but as the cycle lane and buses lanes are not enforced there is often a vehicle blocking the lane.

    If people doubled parked in George street, up the bridges, or Lothian road, I would imagine, anecdotally from what I have noticed notice which may not be representative or correct, that someone would be much more likely to get a ticket.

    Almost every time I travel up the walk in the day there is double parked vehicles I have not noticed this to the same extent in other parts of central Edinburgh.

    There seems to be more traffic enforcers checking people have paid parking tickets and not in residential bays, things that have no safety implications, than actually managing traffic effectively keeping lanes clear. I do wonder if the councils parking enforcers are more focused towards revenue raising activity than traffic management.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. SRD
    Moderator

    It's the police that ticket double parking, and they only seem to be concerned about narrow streets, where emergency vehicles might not be able to get through.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. SRD
    Moderator

    i was thinking we all go in with our bikes and order pizza... but yes, blocking in their delivery cars would be fun too.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. PS
    Member

    There does not seem to be much enforcement in Leith walk, I not sure enforcement could be considered to have failed when its possibly a lack of enforcement that has resulted in the cycling up the walk being difficult at time.

    But why rely on enforcement when you can design away the problem by the simple measure of putting the cyclelane on the inside of a row of parked cars or away from the main carriageway? Prevention rather than cure.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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