I remain... sceptical. Everything looks possible on a computer graphic which has one car, one bike and one pedestrian and no constraints on scale.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Leith Walk Project
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Posted 6 years ago #
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My account has been inaccessible for a while, but I'm back now!
There's not really enough space at this junction for it to work as well as it should. In other situations, the right turning cyclist has room to continue straight on across the side road before turning into the 2nd stage waiting area. My concern with this layout is that driving turning into Brunswick Road may think that the cyclist is turning left and not give them enough room. It should work OK when cyclists are stopped at the Leith Walk signal (Stage 1) but not so good when they arrive on a green light. Similar concerns on the other arms, although less likely to get a green there!Posted 6 years ago # -
The Floating Bus Stop is also not an ideal example. It's good that the Council want to try these things now but there is a risk of them failing from not being optimal. I think it's good to draw attention to these points so that they can be fed back into the monitoring that has been scheduled.
Most of the examples on the web are at quieter locations where most of the pedestrian movements are linear, there is a really wide footway, the cycleway is demarcated by height, kerb and surface and there is little deviation in the cycleway itself.
The council didn't want a height difference as they said that there would be too crossing movements, especially when adding in the tram with a central island for the power suppl poles, calling for lots of dropped kerbs or ups and downs for buggies etc - not very convincing.
Baldwin Street in Bristol might be a similar location - I haven't seen how well that is working?Posted 6 years ago # -
Iona Street has re-opened with an uninterrupted footpath/cyclepath level and a two-stage Give Way sign for vehicles crossing it.
Will any drivers actually give way to people crossing on "their road"?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Some of the Brunswick Rd site compound being broken down this afternoon
Tesco now has armadillos too.
Lots of people on bikes using the uphill lane, and some trying to squeeze through the downhill bit. Most markings now done - work seems very "finishing touches" right now.
That is except for the "Places for People" section which needs fully paved and a car park access road built across the wide "unused" area of the floating bus stop. Maybe this relies on the developer reaching a particular milestone as usually street frontage is the last thing to happen.
Some irony that this was the first area work started
Posted 6 years ago # -
Hm, must get down that way soon for a wee spin and see if the "experience" has improved any. Was pretty usable even when "not in use".
Posted 6 years ago # -
In answer to my question of five days ago: no, drivers are entirely ignoring the set back Give Way markings.
A new question: The uphill cycle lane at Pilrig Street (outside Inform signs, Bier Haus etc) is now armadillo'd off from the main road. Are cyclists expected to use that as a straight through, ignoring traffic lights? Or do lights still apply?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@dougal - I think if the solid Stop line extends across the cycle track, then the signals apply. However usually the track passes "behind" the lights as well, so it's more obvious (e.g. at the corner of King's Buildings, or the east end of the Meadows.
There is no doubt that drivers will think you've broken the law in any and every case.
Robert
Posted 6 years ago # -
Having been beeped at for stopping at red lights in the past, nothing would surprise me.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"I think if the solid Stop line extends across the cycle track, then the signals apply. However usually the track passes "behind" the lights as well, so it's more obvious (e.g. at the corner of King's Buildings, or the east end of the Meadows."
The segregated track between Montague St and Hermit's Croft has a clear and obvious extra stop line and extra set of lights.
Posted 6 years ago # -
First & last use of the dedicated cycle-path going up Leith Walk / Albert Place, three varyingly sweary versions of "get off the pavement" in the space of 100m.
Think i'll stick to the road from now on.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I used the segregated tracks on both sides of Leith Walk this afternoon without incident. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was a pleasure!
The armadillos on the approaches work really well too (so far): no encroaching vehicles. I think it helps that the signage and markings are nearly all in place now, even though the irritating "CYCLE LANE NOT IN USE" signs are *still* present by the uphill track. It certainly is in use, by me and a number of other riders! Oh there were also a couple of be-sand-bagged road diversion signs partially blocking the uphill track near Pilrig. These are minor niggles though and it's certainly usable.
My main caveat would be I was travelling at a moderate pace downhill, and slowly uphill - with a huge load of shopping on the return leg. I was riding the big orange Pashley Pronto so pedestrians mostly gave me a wide berth. I was not in any particular rush and it was very nice to be away from motor vehicles. Very disappointing to have to return to the red chip tarmac door zone parking lane at the foot of the walk.
I'd say if you want to cycle fast, use the road. For pootlers, novices, less confident cyclists, or folk transporting shopping, it is great. What a pity the council were too feart to try a similar approach further down the walk: there's plenty of room.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Iain McR As it's still not open yet, you're likely to get that reaction from some pedestrians.
There was a discussion about the new 'pavement' cyclepath on a local closed Facebook Group, and there's a lot of anger about cyclists using it whilst there are clearly signs saying 'Cyclepath Not In Use'. Many pedestrians aren't against the path per se, but felt that until it's open they shouldn't be encountering - or having to jump out of the way of - anyone cycling on what's still officially just a pavement at the moment.
I suppose they feel like we do as cyclists when there are clear 'road closed', one-way or 'No Entry' signs and we see drivers just blithely ignoring them.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The armadillos railroad you onto the closed path when travelling southbound at Pilrig Street. The alternative of changing lanes into traffic halfway across the junction is not a good one.
The pedestrian/cycle-priority crossing at Albert Street (?) now has give way signs on the road *and* the footpath. Absolutely brilliant job lads, that'll make it all clear.
Also there's an annoying gouge out of the path behind one of the bus stops ... rather than fill it in it's just been painted over with 'zebra' stripes.
Sigh.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The give ways were raised during every consultation and feedback ignored
It’s designing in conflict where none need exist
Posted 6 years ago # -
Edinburgh Reporter @EdinReporter
The two step junction at McDonald Road opened this morning and @SustransScot were there to try it out. And it works on all four sides!https://twitter.com/EdinReporter/status/923128291493666816
(follow link for video of crossing in action)
Wasn't open yesterday afternoon though I could see a lot of finishing work going on at that junction. Looking forward to giving it a try...
Posted 6 years ago # -
So are you expected to not turn right any more? Turning right from a stop should be easy if there's an ASZ, that is after all what they're for...
Posted 6 years ago # -
So are you expected to not turn right any more?
You now have two options for turning right - the traditional way and the new, two-stage, right turn. Everyone will have their own preference.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Just watched the video.
So no lead-in lane to a box that's barely bike sized - that you have to do a 90 degree manoeuvre in.
That's cutting edge cycle design??
Posted 6 years ago # -
Sustrans Scotland @SustransScot
Come along and try it out! It will take time to bed in but it's designed for people who are less confident turning right in busy traffic"You now have two options for turning right "
Exactly. Many folk (including my partner) find turning right at junctions very intimidating. This may help.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@dougal: it's easy to turn right from an ASZ if you don't mind either taking the lane beforehand or cycling at 90 degrees across lanes of traffic not knowing if the lights are about to change, then sitting in the middle of four lanes of traffic for a while. Not exactly 8-80 stuff however used we might be to it.
The advance signal should help though.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I went past last night and thought it looked a bit wee. Perhaps they've analysed traffic flow counts and have calculated that it's big enough to cope with peak-time cyclist-turning-right volumes.
I hope it doesn't confuse motor vehicle drivers into rolling too far forward and stopping over the pedestrian crossing, at the back (left) of what looks like an advanced stop box.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Ah so Leith Walk is now 8-80 Ready(tm) is it? :-D
Posted 6 years ago # -
Maybe not - but I'd feel much better recommending it to my (23 year old, non-regular cyclist) sister now than before.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'd agree - the standard of what is installed is not 8-80, but maybe 13-60.
Without the unexpected armadillos I'd still be calling it "riders confident in traffic only". That's the difference maintaining segregation makes.
Junction green scramble for phase 5? Or does that require a law change.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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This looks very similar to the right turn (left turn in Copenhagen obviously) approach they use in Copenhagen which took me a couple of goes to get used to. There, the cyclists just duck out of the cycle lane, and go to the head of the queue of waiting cyclists on the road they want to turn into (with no box to wait in). It's not that obvious until you see someone using it, but as a Brit I found that the hardest part was going to the *head* of the queue, instead of going all the way to the end.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Is the 700metres of lane really going to be truly segregated?
Posted 6 years ago #
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