CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Leith Walk Project

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  1. Frenchy
    Member

    Presumably "no budget"?

    The orcas/armadillos cost £3500. Can't imagine that wands would be much more.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    @Frenchy, sure but if the £3.5k has been spent...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. Did CEC try painting the orcas before they were removed? They seem to think paint is a good safety tool elsewhere in the city.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. neddie
    Member

    Some more details:

    Why were the armadillos installed?

    Armadillos were installed for a short period of time to determine whether they were the correct soft segregation measure for the chosen locations on Leith Walk. This type of soft segregation is intended to provide a visual delineation for cyclists and not a hard barrier between the cycleway and road, it is probably worth stating that they were not installed to stop people parking on the footways/cycleway. The cost of supply and installation was approximately £3,500.00.

    The armadillos were not part of the original design and were only introduced as a test to see how well they functioned. Importantly, they are not required as a safety measure and indeed the project was subject to a stage 2 Road Safety Audit without the armadillos and was deemed safe.

    Why were the armadillos removed?

    The trial highlighted an increased safety risk for pedestrians. They were installed close to pedestrian crossings and this created a trip hazard very close to moving traffic. After a 4-week period of monitoring - and following incident reports from both pedestrians and cyclists regarding safety issues - a decision was taken to remove the armadillos from the street. While they may have been viewed positively by some, we have a responsibility to ensure that Leith Walk is a safe environment for all – pedestrians, cyclists and vehicles. As these were not integral to the safety of those using the cycleway it made sense to remove these immediately to mitigate the known risk i.e. pedestrians tripping and falling into the road. Since being removed Council officers have come up with a proposed solution going forward.

    What solution is now proposed?

    The introduction of further infrastructure onto the road and cycleway could itself create potential for conflict between cyclists, pedestrians and vehicles. Following internal consultation, it has been agreed that the preferred solution will not involve replacing the armadillos with an alternative physical resolution such as bollards or wands. Instead it is proposed that the Council will increase the visibility of road markings at the affected locations to provide a clearer visual delineation between the cycling space and road traffic space, this proposal will be discussed with Sustrans and other key cycling stakeholders prior to any plans being finalised.

    What next?

    The Leith Programme team will continue to liaise with the Council designers, the active travel team and key cycling stakeholders to create a plan to have any work carried out as soon as possible, this will be after the Christmas embargo in January. Once it becomes clear as to what modifications are required and when work can be carried out we will provide an update.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. HankChief
    Member

    Wow. Just Wow!

    So on Chesser, we can't have a segregated cycle route because of the difficulty with dealing safely with junctions.

    On Leith Walk, they build a phased rejoining of cycle / motor traffic at junctions using the armadillos, which isn't ideal but workable. However they've now decided that paint will suffice to make it 8-80. Really?

    This is definitely Edinburgh...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. crowriver
    Member

    So the cycle tracks will now be largely unusable due to parked or "loading" motor vehicles blocking the entry points.

    Seems CEC default position is "if in doubt, do nowt" when it comes to cycling infrastructure.

    I will e-mail my councillors but don't hold out much hope. Seems battle lines have been drawn, hatches battened down, trenches dug, etc.

    @nedd1e_h, what's your source for this official statement?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. HankChief
    Member

    It makes the Picardy Place decision easier if you cut off the flow of people on bikes coming up Leith Walk...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. neddie
    Member

    @crowriver

    Source is a message sent to elected councillors by the director of Anturas Consulting Ltd (who I presume are responsible for the scheme)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. mogwai1375
    Member

    Are there particular people/councillors/etc that are the best points of contact for expressing displeasure at this shortsighted, bordering on idiotic, @^*&$%! decision?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. teddybears
    Member

    What a load of rubbish. Trial!!
    So they intended to trial something and told no one about it? Yeh right.

    If no one walks in to these and complains, the Orcas would still be there.
    I don't really think those involved have got much of a clue.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. dougal
    Member

    "As these were not integral to the safety of those using the cycleway it made sense to remove these immediately to mitigate the known risk i.e. pedestrians tripping and falling into the road."

    Maybe not integral to the safety but apparently desperately needed for the integrity of the path as a separate lane. The very day the armadillos disappeared drivers were leaving their vehicles in the lane.

    "Since being removed Council officers have come up with a proposed solution going forward."

    Since that last one was apparently a trial (did anyone know it was a trial before it was abandoned?) is this next one a trial too? What will the metrics of "paint and signposts" be to determine success or failure? Where should I be emailing my photos of all the cars blocking the lane?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. Klaxon
    Member

    Just skimmed the South City Way plans

    https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=19365

    The design is so many ways better

    The lanes don’t wiggle in and out
    The junctions get (broadly) more protection, not less
    Side road treatment much more consistent and good quality

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. wingpig
    Member

    "...and indeed the project was subject to a stage 2 Road Safety Audit without the armadillos and was deemed safe."

    For whom? Motor vehicle drivers? Perhaps a Stage 2 Road Safety Audit only checks that the road is not subject to dangerous levels of gamma radiation, or is not too heavily-exposed to toxic assets.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. teddybears
    Member

    Road User Safety Audits look at things from the perspective of all road users.
    In daylight and in the dark.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. dougal
    Member

    So this is 8-80 is it?

    Or maybe not *all* road users.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. Klaxon
    Member

    Road Safety Audits, dive in if you dare

    http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards/dmrb/vol5/section2/HD1915_May.pdf

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. sallyhinch
    Member

    Time for a human-protected bike lane.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. Frenchy
    Member

    Time for a human-protected bike lane. [/i]

    Yes. Let's do this. When?

    New thread?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Lesley MacInnes is clearly a purveyor of untruths.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. dougal
    Member

    @Frenchy Next Wednesday? Next Friday? (These are the days I am around to give my time.)

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Klaxon
    Member

    Wednesday is good

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. wingpig
    Member

    There's no point in there along the lines of "Are measures in place to stop idiots parking or driving on the clearly-marked cycleway?". Also, there's a large television screen visible from the roadway, which ought not to be considered a pass.

    I'm off on Wednesday afternoon next week.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. gibbo
    Member

    I hate to say I told you so. But ...

    So the myth of a Leith Walk with segregated bike lanes in both directions has now died a death.

    All we have is some on pavement biking (for a very short distance) and a weird "takes you twice as long" right turn to Brunswick Road.

    And the "big cycling budget increase"? Going to be spent on resurfacing NEPN - something that's not only unncessary, but will almost certainly make it much worse to ride on.

    It's the illusion of investing in cycling - but only in the sense of spending money, not in true sense of making changes that will encourage cycling.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Oh God that is hopeless. How many bodies would be needed to do the human bollard thing? Need time to assemble them and tip the press off.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. unhurt
    Member

    Bollard presenting for duty (work allowing, sadly).

    Rush hour BEFORE work maybe? But after it's at least mostly light?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  26. I am available the next Wednesday afternoon and anytime the following wednesday

    Posted 2 years ago #
  27. Stickman
    Member

    I should be free next Wednesday.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  28. unhurt
    Member

    Suggest we'll want to recruit beyond CCE. Twitter, obviously. FB event once date / time fixed. Spokes members? I'm guessing Critical Massers would be up for it...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  29. sallyhinch
    Member

    Happy to spread the word through the POP channels once something's settled.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  30. sallyhinch
    Member

    PS can I recommend starting a Slack group for the actual organisation? Worked very well for the Shandwick Place protest

    Posted 2 years ago #

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