CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
@pixelmix yeah I tried that the first time I went that way (in the dark and the rain) and had a taxi try to ram it's way through on wrong side of the road.
Thought I'd take the "blocking" line this time. The car behind thought it was going to get past on the tracks judging by the engine tone but I made sure my line was enough across its path to defer this idea.
I did Dalry Road to Torphicen Street last night (in the dark & wet on skinny slicks). Can't say it was pleasant.
The bit I struggled with was leaving Dalry Road. I was in the left hand lane but veered off to the left to tackle the tracks nearer to right angle and then headed right towards West Maitland Street and found myself on a collision course with the mini-van (who was behind me at the lights) heading for Grosvenor Street. We both stopped and had an awkward pause trying to work out who should go first.
All very amicable, but did make me wonder what I should have done differently. I was in primary but by tackling the rails square on took me left and out of primary. Possibly starting further to the right of the lane and signalling right - but I'm not especially keen on having my hands off the bars.
Is West Maitland St. two ways now?
Yes, but I think only trams & buses can head West.
Cars still go via Morrison St
@gembo - 2 mill per year.
@pixelmix yeah I tried that the first time I went that way (in the dark and the rain) and had a taxi try to ram it's way through on wrong side of the road.
IMHO that might be the best least worst option (if you end up in the left lane and the taxi passes on your right).
"
@SpokesLothian: #Tramline traumas article updated with @cocteautriplets video http://t.co/4AaL7S2Bui and ?safest way Dalry Rd to Torphichen St @CyclingEdin
"
Here's a puzzle:
When is a "local bus" not a "local bus"?
Answer: when it's an ambulance!
Waiting for a bus in Queensferry Street today, I saw a Scottish Ambulance Service ambulance come round from Hope Street. No Blues or Twos so almost certainly not on an emergency call. So, was the driver entitled to disobey the "local buses only" sign? I'd have thought not, but if anyone knows different...
@Focus some emergency vehicles have certain exemptions to road regulations, even when the blues and twos are not on (although apparently that's "desirable"). This exemption may include driving in a bus lane.
There's few things they can't do when exercising professional caution and judgement, but they are not allowed to;
- ignore a 'no entry' sign
- ignore a 'stop' or 'give way' sign
- drive the wrong way down a one-way street
(seehere)
Well, I thought I had the tramlines sussed going west. Move to the middle of the Morrision Street ASL, move off just before the lights turn green, and follow the line between lanes 1 and 2.
Nope. I got that horrible rear wheel sliding feeling. The two things in my favout of the cyclo X tyres, and my weight being forward saved the day, but I'll just have to reckon with there being no guarenteed safe way across the junction.
(At least you can see the first set of tram lines. The second are very hard to spot unless you know to look).
@Kaputnik - thanks again for the video. When I used to cycle that way I think I took the right lane on Dalry Road as I was turning right later anyway. Is there a reason you took the left lane? I noticed the cars in the right lane went into the same lane as you after crossing the tram lines - I wonder if the problem HankChief had might be alleviated a bit doing that. I might have misunderstood the lanes though - I still haven't had a reason to cycle that way to check it out (and also I'm a coward)
Police officer speaking to taxi driver who was occupying ASZ at front of Haymarket taxi rank this am, go EEN!
@kaputnik the way to access Haymarket station from the direction of Dalry Road is to get off your bike and push it along the pavement (and not cycle on the pavement like the person in your video). It really isn't that far.
Oh, yes. This morning: taxi in ASL, taxi blocking "jug handle" cycle lane access to ASL, rearmost taxi out in road on yellow lines.
Good to hear Dougie's report, though.
My route over the tramlines from Dalry Road is as Hankchief says - bear away very strongly left to get a good angle. I've only done that twice, though, and not at rush hour, but I've not had a problem yet.
What put me off starting in the right hand lane is that my veering to the left would then put me in conflict with vehicles in the left hand lane, who could be cutting the corner off.
You could then find you have vehicles on both sides of you.
Utopia would see traffic lights with cycles setting off in advance...
A suggestion more palatable to the god of traffic flow would be to have lane markings across the junction.
@kaputnik the way to access Haymarket station from the direction of Dalry Road is to get off your bike and push it along the pavement
In moving traffic? There used to be a cyclists left-turn exemption here (although Spokes inform me the signs may never have appeared, it was there on the TRO).
Expecting people to simply materialise off the road in moving traffic and onto the pavement is not really acceptable for a "world class", "21st century" "fully integrated"* transport hub in my opinion.
If there's space to dump a load of commercial bins on the road just there, then there's space to widen the pavement and provide for a small lead-in and hop-off lane.
* other superlatives are available
@algo Is there a reason you took the left lane?
No particluar reason beyond I approached the junction in the bus lane and there's no way to get up to the ASL box when there's buses around as the road is too narrow really for it. It's also not made clear that right hand lane should be used for right turning up ahead.
I don't suppose it matters which lane I started off in, the desirable line of travel for a cyclist is far off that imagined by the planners who determined where to paint the white lines. I did have my hand indicating right to change lanes as it was in the back of my mind that it's a far from ideal situation. But then the whole layout is far, far from ideal.
There was a polisman there about 840 this morning as I passed, and not one infringing vehicule. I *think* the camera was on but when I got to the office it appeared to have crashed in the on mode and wouldn't go off, so I'll have to see when I get home if I need another visit.
Focus,
Non-emergency ambulances frequently use the bus gate between Greendykes and the ERI, which I was surprised about, so much so I stopped and checked the signage, which didn't seem to offer any dispensation their way.
Almost inevitably, after my slightly hubristic post yesterday, last night my rear wheel decided it liked the tram lines so much it wanted to take a ride (as per chdot's 'Slippy' Youtube clip). A nasty moment. Don't think I did anything differently to previous successful crossings and it was less wet last night than those occasions. Depressing.
Another bugbear - I'm pretty sure I got 3 red lights between the bottom of Morrison St and the Coates Gdns junction last night. Haymarket, Jughandle was green(quelle surprise having waited in the JH the other night), then red at Haymarket Yards, then red at the puffin crossing all off, ooh, 10 yards further on. I mean WTAF, CEC? Does it really make sense to retain a separate ped crossing so close to a nice shiny new junction with ped phases?
Well chdot's clip made it to road.cc:
http://road.cc/content/news/96857-video-cyclists-hurt-lethal-edinburgh-tram-tracks
@kaputnik - thanks for the explanation. I haven't ridden it for a while so have forgotten what it's like - it does seem not to matter which lane you're in - if you try and avoid a shallow angle you are going to come in conflict with cars in one way or another, whether it be crossing into their lane, or apparently moving over to the bus lane...
Should go down one lunchtime and do a wee video of 'methods' of crossing the tracks. Sort of a comedy thing. Film a cyclist doing a full on turn to hit at 90 degrees; another bunnyhopping each of the four tracks in turn (this is my approach if I don't have the bike loaded up); another using the jug handle and getting stuck at the red...
@kaputnik yes I just pull up on the left somewhere between the bins and the lights. No problem (but (fimm's usual caveat) this is at 7:30am).
Going the other way I walk as far as the pedestrian crossing and then usually walk to the island in the middle and use the white chevroned area to wait for a suitable space to start off in.
Should go down one lunchtime and do a wee video of 'methods' of crossing the tracks.
Then edit the video clips together to run in parallel to illustrate the relative 'time taken' and 'number of hazards' encountered.
Heading west at Haymarket this morning. In the ASL on the left hand lane, but planning on going straight on and NOT using the jug-handle. An ambulance was coming up behind, so I moved over to the right hand lane.
When we moved off, the van to my rear/left rushed off and immediately changed lane. By the time he was level with me, he was pretty much in my lane and forcing me up against the tram lines. I had to stop and then swing left to cross them at a better angle. Didn;t fancy an emergency bunny-hop when he was so close..
So thank you A G McDougall, suspended ceiling fitters of Edinburgh. T**t driver of the day.
@WC happy to lend my camera to help out. I have helmet and bar mounts for it and it can go on a tripod too.
Early one Sunday might be good, 830AMish to get the first light but while its still quiet?
@ kaputnik
Thanks for the emergency vehicle link. It's all a bit ambiguous re the bus restriction then. It's not so much that I have a problem with what the ambulance did, other than "if it can do it in a seemingly non-emergency situation, why can't I on a bicycle?" All a bit silly.
The sooner the council sees sense (rare, I know!) and realises there's simply no point or advantage in preventing cyclists using the Hope St/Queensferry St in both directions, the better. I just can't see why they restricted it.
@chdot,
There are three threads about Haymarket now. Its hard to keep track, esp when I'm supposed to be at work ;o)
Can we close or merge some or all of them please?
Many thanks,
Dave (simple man who can't multi task) C
@DaveC
It's very simple. Just keep three tabs open and approach them at a 90* angle.
Honestly, cyclists!!
;-)
But make sure you're wearing the appropriate / inappropriate safety gear otherwise we'll all know it's your own fault when it goes wrong!
I've just been round the West End and Haymarket to see for myself. The usual moderately scary dance with buses along Princes St westbound. But then going straight on to Shandwick Place is the first problem. At the lights, waiting to the left of the tramlines is uncomfortably close to the two lanes of traffic turning left into Lothian Rd, so I chose to position myself between the tramlines. However, once you've reached Shandwick Place, you're stuck in the middle of the road looking for a chance to pull back over to the left. There was a bus behind me, fortunately being very patient and considerate while I judged the least dangerous way to cross the leftmost line. How will this work when the trams are running? Will they also have to crawl along behind an anxious cyclist?
The route round onto Torphichen St to Dalry Rd was no more scary than it usually is. Coming back up Dalry Rd to the junction, I see the ASZ isn't coloured. Why ever not? Can't be a streetscape issue there. I hadn't realised there's no left turn from Dalry Rd onto Haymarket Terr, so I went across and up Grosvenor St, then looped back via Torphichen St (using the clearly marked pink bike lane on Torphichen St until it suddenly disappears at the junction, just where it would be really useful for alerting drivers to the possible presence of bikes), to Haymarket station, where there were two taxis on the double yellows, preventing any safe crossing of the tramlines.
There's a blue bike route sign on Haymarket Terr pointing down Haymarket Yards; I'm glad to see that the cycle markings on the road right on top of the tramlines down the slope have been removed. The only safe positioning for going down HY seems to be to stay in the middle, between the up and down pairs of tramlines. Not an option once the trams are running of course, and I doubt there's enough space for trams to safely pass cyclists keeping to the left. When I came up HY again, I noticed a bike route sign pointing left for the city centre. Then there's another one (with no destination indicated) pointing up Coates Gardens. Probably a good route choice, though Coates Gdns is moderately steep and cobbled; but no cyclist unfamiliar with the area would know that they need to immediately move into the right lane after turning left to be able to make that right turn. I got off and walked across at the lights. Confusingly, on Haymarket Terr, just after the left turn out of HY, there's a bike sign indicating the route (left) to Cramond, Qferry etc. That sign should be before the HY turnoff of course - it's no use at all where it is, pretty much invisible to anyone cycling west from Haymarket stn - and just had me wondering if there was some other left turn a bit further on I wasn't previously aware of. And then to round off the trip, a private hire taxi barged its way past me on Eglinton Cres, while I was starting to move out to go round some sort of construction machinery on the road, and then stopped halfway into the ASZ at the Palmerston Pl junction while we both waited at the red light.
But it's a beautiful day.
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