CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
@ Colonies_Chris
"Confusingly, on Haymarket Terr, just after the left turn out of HY, there's a bike sign indicating the route (left) to Cramond, Qferry etc. ... had me wondering if there was some other left turn a bit further on I wasn't previously aware of."
I haven't spotted that one. I assume it's way too early to be indicating the west end of Balbirnie Place (where the petrol station used to be)?
Just back from a second attempt to make sense of the mess that is Haymarket. I should have known the battery reading on my camera might be optimistic when it's been out of action so long :-(
Otherwise it would have recorded the following:
My first right turn onto Torphichen St from W Maitland Instead of Palmerston Pl last time) wasn't as bad as it would be in the dark and rain. I made a deliberately wide approach to it, essentially continuing straight on Until I was about to cross out of my lane, before turning more sharply across the rails. Easy enough if there's space between you and other traffic.
I decided to "experience" the taxi rank bike lane and leave setting off in the right hand lane from Morrison St for another time. The taxi queue was within the rank's boundaries, but as soon as I entered the lane, the first taxi moved off and stopped in the ASL box on red! I came up alongside and gave him a tilted head look of disapproval. Down came the window...
Now, he wasn't abusive, just to give him credit for that at least, and stayed calm. The approximate exchange (The bold quote is my emphasis, not his):
"I know there's not much space, but you know you're not supposed to stop over the ASL" (Cue him reaching his head out of the cab to look down at the ASL box as though he had no idea it was there!)
"What can I do?"
"Well it's illegal to stop in here on a red light. All I'm asking you to do is obey the law"
<Slightly mocking laugh> "The day I see a cyclist obey the law..."
"Oh, come on, don't throw that one at me. You know we're not all law-breakers, any more than you are all saints."
"Yes, I know, but the problem is there's too many of you"
<Smiling> "Well we'd say there are too many taxis!. The fact is that the ASL is there for cyclists' safety and to let us get out of your way quicker."
At that, the lights finally went green and at least he had the sense or decency to wait till I'd gone through the lights before setting off himself, although I don't know if it was his taxi behind me or if he'd done a U-turn (which would have been a reason for letting me go first to avoid a collision).
So, the message is still to get through, unsurprisingly. But hey, no mention of "Road Tax"!
Funnily enough, though I would only have been more forceful in my comments in this situation if I'd had lip off him (since I wasn't in actual peril with us both being stationary), I did find myself trying to be extra diplomatic seeing as we have an attempt to be #Nice to each other over the Haymarket fiasco. If only that could stretch to every interaction between cabbies and cyclists but that day seems a long way off. This guy was one of the older generation but at least gave the impression of not being a complete <insert your choice of phrase here>.
As I thought this mornings movie file corrupted. Will try again tomorrow.
Shame, as it means I can't publicly humiliate the lad cycling along pavement round the corner at Brougham Street, almost colliding with two pedestrians in the process, then across the junction on red, all the while eating a piece of toast!
@Focus - yes, it's only a couple of yards past the HY junction. Nowhere near Balbirnie Pl.
Tried a new tactic this evening.
Got to the end of Morrison St and saw the taxis were blocking safe entry to the jug handle. I thought "s*d it" and got off my bike and walked across Dalry Road and past Haymarket, getting back on the bike at the tram stop.
I did notice one taxi protruding beyond the left hand side of the ASL, another tucked up behind in the ASL, and a third sitting in the right of the ASL. (But he had his hazard warning lights on, so that's ok).
This is one of my possible ways home. I'm not a bold or fit cyclist and always take the safest route. Today I stopped at the end of Dalry Road and pushed my cycle through the Haymarket to check it out. The guy I saw crossing the line did a hop, which I couldn't do in a million years. The taxis were in the ATL at the jug handle - and you'd have to know it was there before using it. When I cross tram tracks at Haymarket Yards I actually stop and turn the cycle at a 90 degree angel so I can cycle that quiet piece before crossing the ramp to Russell Road.
For cyclists like me, coming off Morrison Street is simply verboten.
Rosie - that's e act.y the sort of first person account that would be very effective if sent to your councillors.
Ok - will write a polite email.
Footage should have worked this morning. I tried a novel S-shaped approach taking over all the lanes at once.
Not sure it was any better, but at least I didn't fall!
Oh, yes, yesterday evening I did my usual "bear away to the left and cross the lines at a good angle" thing coming from Dalry Road and managed to confuse the woman in the car behind me (who I think was also confused by the general layout and who I think was hooted at by the car behind her). Anyway we both ground to a near halt while I thought she was going to left-hook me and then she shot off and ended up in the right-hand lane.
Tried the route East -> West straight down Princes Street this morning. At the end of PS, where it splits into 3 lanes (2 turning left down Lithian Road, and 1 striaght on with green tarmac and tramlines) I decided to ride down the left land side of the green lane.
Well, I can say that the seam between the normal road surface and the green tarmac is pretty slippy. Didn't go down, but the taxi behind me decided it was best to hang back after that!
I had occasion to visit the dentist yesterday in Dalry, so headed down to Haymarket after to gauge the situation for myself.
I went left into the Jug Handle as directed, and had a few mins of my life wasted waiting for those lights to change,all the while with NO traffic on the road adjacent going westward, despite the lights being green on the road part.
And so my opinion for what its worth on the layout etc, ABSOLUTELY FARKIN RIDICULOUS AND POINTLESS, NOTWITHSTANDING THE CLEAR DANGERS. RJ
Jug Handle solution:
Get off.
Push over line.
Remount.
Cycle off.
Thereby demonstrate complete and utter ineffectiveness of jughandle in practice.
Mind you. I've seen taxi drivers take the same appoach to the red lights too (not the get off and push bit, though).
West Maitland Street (East to West).
It's marked "trams and local buses only". I cycled through it this morning, but I'm wondering whether I was being naughty?
I can't believe the council is still, largely, quiet on the matter. I'd absolutely not want to drive on a stretch of road where cyclists are likely to fall off ahead and beside me. That road layout isn't good news for anyone!
I cycled through it this morning, but I'm wondering whether I was being naughty?
I cycled from the East End along Princes St and onwards to Haymarket and Roseburn Park earlier. I was all lined up for West Maitland St and then noticed the markings, so confused the hell out of the driver behind me by cutting left for the Torphichen diversion.
As I waited on Morrison St I could see several cyclists coming out of WMS towards Haymarket. "Bah!", I think I said out loud.
So today I tried cycling through to Haymarket Terrace. I had the bright idea to take the right-hand lane but then the road markings—and the car in front now indicating right—seemed to suggest it was a right turn only lane for Rosebery Crescent, which confused me just when I was trying not to drop my wheels into the rail gaps. So I hit the brakes and managed to fit myself into a gap on my left in the otherwise pretty busy traffic and successfully rumbled my heavily loaded Brompton across the next set of rails. No bunnyhoppery or anything athletic like that.
Take away the traffic and it would be much easier. I was having to concentrate like mad, and I can fully appreciate what it's like for slower or less confident cyclists. The drivers around me seemed to have no inkling or inclination that they should slow down around me.
When it's snowing in February, Haymarket is going to be incredibly dangerous.
We discussed the Jug Handle method this morning. I suggested we emply Danny MacAskill and Red Bull to make a demo video. This would see the Jug Handle full of taxis, and Danny rear wheel hop over the cabs from roof to roof.
See this instructional video here:
I emailed my councillors. First of all got this reply:-
Dear Ms Bell
Thank you for your email about the cycling in the Haymarket area. I believe it is very important for people to be able to cycle safely in the city and I will ask the Officers to look at the issue at Haymarket and report back to you when I have more information.
In the meantime if I can help with anything else please do get back in touch.
With kind regards
Jeremy
Pretty standard. But just now I got:-
Dear Ms Bell,
I refer to my email earlier today. I have now asked for a full report on this situation which is being prepared. My Conservative colleague Cllr Joanna Mowat is our transport spokesperson and she is going to put down an emergency Motion at the Transport Committee next Tuesday morning. Once that motion has been debated I will give you a further update.
Jeremy
Cllr Jeremy R Balfour
So something has got through.
Well done Rosie!
Does seem a bit bizarre that some councillors don't seem to read the ENews!
My own personal work round will be to turn right onto Torphicen Place and then left into Palmerston Place and so by-pass that awful crossroads altogether. A bit round about the houses but you'll be taking the tramlines at a right angle.
Inspired by Rosie!
Having had no reply from the central team (letter plus 2 reminders over the past fortnight) I'll now try my luck with my councillors re the Ryans bar bus lane which is my alternative to heading home through Haymarket. Will also write re my Haymarket experiences... I've been trying to find a comfortable way through it over the past week but have felt safe on only one occasion when a fantastic bus driver sat patiently at a distance behind me (I must have been looking seriously wobbly that day and a letter of praise has duly been written). I too have made the decision that I'm safer continuing to weave through the West End - obviously with a short walk past Ryans bar!
Bit of a "rant" in the end credits.
But you get the point :)
Good video - thanks - I see what people are talking about now. That (brand new!) road design is jaw-droppingly unsafe. How is it possible for the designers to fall so far short of their basic task, to provide safe infrastructure that works?
Personally I see no alternative but to walk all the way through that section, just as I had to when the junction was closed. That's a great disappointment.
So what's the solution? Rip up the tram tracks yet again but this time relay them in some other arrangement? Close half the road so as to allow a weird zig-zaggy cycle path on it? A dedicated cycle track to the left of the tram tracks, protected from motor traffic?
A dedicated cycle track to the left of the tram tracks, protected from motor traffic?
That's the only answer I can see, whether it's on the left of the tracks or goes across the tracks to the north side and gets a separate phase of the lights.
Great result Rosie ! thanks for doing that.
One potential workaround, without ripping up the rails, would have been linking up Distillery Lane (at the north end of Dalry Road, just before Haymarket Station) to Haymarket Yards via a bridge over the railway tracks. Conveniently, it would also lead to crossing the tracks at the Yards at a near 90 degree angle.
Unfortunately, the lane is a private road (Council Directory) so that seems unlikely to happen. The cost of a bridge would be minuscule compared to the cost of the tramworks. Or a life.
Is it purely residential these days?
How about traffic lights with an advanced phase for cyclists?
That would definitely be an improvement and would at least give riders a chance to negotiate the lines without the fear of traffic mowing them down if they came a cropper. But then and advanced light system for cyclists should be phased in (pun intended) on all busy cycle routes.
Hold the front page! Changes are afoot!
I've just been speaking to the EEN again, so there might be a story again tomorrow, and the council is acting. They are going to.... put up some signs telling cyclists how to cross the lines, and fine taxi drivers who are sticking out into the road.
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