There's a good spot for shoaling at the top of Middle Meadow Walk, with the added ambiguity of whether you wait for the lights in the cycle lane or cross the give way lane markers to wait on the pavement.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help
Commuting etiquette
(87 posts)- Started 11 years ago by twq
- Latest reply from Instography
- This topic is
not a support question
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Posted 11 years ago #
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Min, you forgot, "To the right depends on circumnstances" (even retained the typo so as not to try and save myself from ridicule).
Hadn't expected it to become a deconstruction of just what was meant by 'to the right' and 'straight on' and 'dislike' and etc etc. But then this is CCE ;)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Okay then I didn't mean you, I meant some of the other posters.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Posted 11 years ago # -
No problem with meaning me, I was as guilty of obfuscation as anyone else ;)
Get 10 cyclists in a room and you'll have 32 opinions...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I had just such a situation today when cycling north up North Junction Street, aiming to go straight over to OT. Got to the front to discover a cyclist in the ASL, on the left, so I positioned myself to their right, but was careful to ensure I was not ahead of them. They gave me shifty looks constantly while the lights were at red. Despite the fact that they were on a MTB, I let them go first, because they were there first. The cyclist then moved away as quickly as they possibly could and pedalled furiously to stay ahead of me for about 30 seconds, by which point I was bored so overtook them.
Therefore, I thoroughly agree that you should let other cyclists who got to the front before you go first, but I see no problem positioning yourself to the right of them if that's the only place you can go in the ASL.
Posted 11 years ago # -
34 opinions; get it right, Wilmington's so-called 'Cow'.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Just tell the guy/girl next to you in the ASZ you love their bike, and you can then pull-up where you like ;)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I position myself wherever is best given who (or what) is already there. It doesn't bother me if other riders arrive afterwards and do the same. It seems odd that it would be OK to pass a hundred queueing motorists but a grievous breach of etiquette to be incorrectly positioned WRT another stationary rider in an ASL...
Is it just the case that whoever gets there first has "rights" over that whole bit of road, regardless of the amount they need (by any objective measure)?
Why is not just as valid to expect the first rider in the box to position themselves to accommodate those who follow after (or the faster rider to be able to accommodate the slower, regardless of the order of arrival)?
Does overtaking someone grant you eternal rights not to be passed by them in the ebb and flow of traffic? Does this etiquette apply only on the same day you originally overtook them, or apply in perpetuity? ;-)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I think it's just queueing etiquette. You wouldn't jump the queue in a car so why would you do it on a bike?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm not sure. If you're waiting to cross the road is it a violation for someone else to stand at the kerb, rather than behind you?
Posted 11 years ago # -
No-one said it was a 'violation', just manners. But no, standing besuide at the kerb is fine - though there's a slight difference to walking to cross the road, and riding away from an ASL mixed with traffic (IMHO).
It would certainly be bad form, thoguh, to walk up to the kerb, then off it and move in front of someone else standing at the kerb...
Posted 11 years ago # -
A lot of this just comes down to wanting people to be polite to each other...
Posted 11 years ago # -
I agree with WC that this is really just a matter of politeness (and a very minor annoyance at best). However, I do think that encouraging a bunch of cyclists of varying speeds and abilities to line up alongside each other in a box in front of a queue of cars which all set off at the same time probably isn't a great idea - the combination of cyclists jockeying for position and impatient drivers - not great.
Posted 11 years ago # -
As a cycling-specific forum, I think CCE (and others) can assume there are "rules" that all cyclists understand, agree with and should follow. But most cyclists aren't "specialists" (where specialist just means keen enough on the subject to join a forum about it).
Personally, I'd never thought of there being any actual etiquette about ASL use amongst cyclists, it's more about common sense to me and I don't find myself over-thinking my positioning. If the riders in there don't look the fast getaway types, I'll place myself in any space that gets me out of their way ASAP, rather than having to plan an overtake with accelerating motor traffic behind me. If there's a left or right turn at the junction, I'll take that into account but I don't apply any "rules" to it. Just common sense.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I fail to see how it is bad manners to pull up alongside another cyclist in the ASL, irrespective of whether it is to their left or their right. And why is the ASL as wide as the lane if we were not supposed to use all of it?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Oh god, I think I need to lie down in a quiet corner and weep. We're talking about shoaling - going in front of another waiting cyclist. Not alongside.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The original question was "so positioned myself to the right of a couple of others", not in front of, so I think there's (at least) two concurrent, but similar discussions. I agree it's probably considered bad manners to go in front of another cyclist who got to the front of the queue first.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Pushiness. Can't stand it. The thing about ASLs is that they allow cyclists to behave in the ways that drivers would if cars were narrower or lanes were wider. ASLs are like the three lanes filtering down to two. Normal drivers merge in quickly but there's always a bunch of, err, drivers who want to get ahead. It's the natural order of things. Relax, stop where you're safest but have eyes everywhere and enjoy it when you get to overtake in a moment or two.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@Focus
We're British. There's etiquette everywhere.Posted 11 years ago # -
In the case of chdot's photo above, supposing there were many cars and not just one, and the first rider to arrive was the one in hi-viz, did the rider in blue commit a breach of etiquette? (Although I would normally be in the middle of the lane, this is about where I would naturally stop).
What if the first arrival was actually the rider at the back, who is being cautious in case the car makes an unsignalled left turn. Breach of etiquette by *both* riders in front?
Posted 11 years ago # -
But you know the difference between people using the space available on the road and eejits pushing in to get ahead. You can spot the people who, in their heads, are going "brrrrm, brrrrrm" and revving their imaginary engines while waiting at the imaginary start line on their imaginary Thunder Road for the imaginary babe to drop her imaginary scarf.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Simple for me - Position yourself in the best possible spot for your post-ASL road position.
That doesnt mean elbow other cyclists out the way, but some cyclists road positioning is poor, and I wont put myself in a dangerous position for the sake of 'manners'.
The only thing that bothers me if I am first in is if I am clearly on the left, turning left and someone squeezes up my inside.
In the picture chdot took, it clearly doesnt help that the car is in the box, as my usual straight on position is compromised by it.
I turn right from Slateford Rd up Ashley terr and am in that ASL most days. I have been harangued once or twice for being 'in a rush' - nothing could be further from the truth, its just that if you dont swiftly access that ASL and hop right, you risk being sideswiped by a bus going straight on.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"I have been harangued once or twice for being 'in a rush' "
By other cyclists?
If they are to left of right turning lane in ASL box then you have to go to their right.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Agreed re relative position in ASL box, but that wasnt situation.
From memory may have been the same chap twice in one week !
First time I didnt catch what he said but it was clearer the second time - He was at the right of the ASL, but was positioned toward the rear of the box - my impression was that he came up that lane all the way from Slateford Road west of Robertson Avenue.
I came up the straight on lane and jinked right into the ASL from the left (whether I do that or how he entered is based entirely on traffic conditions).
I think that his issue was that I was marginally 'ahead' of him in the box and he had first dibs on going for the corner. When he said something to me, I just said 'not a problem, after you' or words to that effect.
I am a bit more relaxed about who goes first there - I am commuting SS so unlikely to win any Strava awards up the hill in any event.
Posted 11 years ago # -
This one turned into a bit of a race - I left them to it.
Green/white bike came after I had stopped behind other two.
Not saying 'I was right' but if you go right like that it helps if you know you have legs for it...
Posted 11 years ago # -
"he had first dibs on going for the corner"
Especially if he was already there and on right.
Actually quite useful having a bike ahead of you there - particularly unpleasant bit of road up to (and over) bridge - narrow (with extra islands) and particularly awful surface which it's best to go right of (if you can be sure following vehicles don't want to race for the gap!)
Posted 11 years ago # -
"he had first dibs on going for the corner"
Especially if he was already there and on right.
Then he should have gone to the front of the box instead of waiting at the back and demanding to have the whole ASL to himself.
Posted 11 years ago # -
That green/white bike is yet another parent proxy-spot.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I do find it slightly odd when people arrive in an ASL with no-one in it and sit right at the back or, as strange, go over the front line and wait beyond it (especially in some cases where that then means you can't see the light.
Posted 11 years ago #
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