CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

NEPN, Craigleith Junction upgrade. Have your say

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  1. Focus
    Member

    Saw this on the way home in the rain:

    ]

    "Craigleith Junction on cyclepath/walkway

    The City of Edinburgh's Councils' Cycle team have been offered a grant of £30,000 from a Community Links fund to provide improvements to the junction of the Roseburn and Telford cycle paths at Craigleith. The junction is seen as a key entry/exit point onto the north cycle path network and the aim is to improve this area for all path users. This project also gives us the opportunity to improve the public space of the path area to benefit the local community.

    We are holding a design workshop on Monday 21st October from 6.00pm to 8.00pm at the North Neighbourhood Office, 8 West Pilton Gardens.

    We are keen to capture the needs of the local community and path users. If you are interested in participating in this workshop and sharing your views and experiences, please contact Paul Matthews on 0131 469 3700 or email paul.matthews@edinburgh.gov.uk "

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. 559
    Member

    West Pilton Gardens local to Craigleith junction?, not.

    Improve sight lines
    Improve lighting
    some "Slow junction approaching" signs especially coming down from the Drylaw spur

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. Baldcyclist
    Member

    Roundabout.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. Focus
    Member

    I know what you mean about the location. With all due respect to the more upstanding residents of the area, I don't think I'd want to lock my bike up there for 2 hours. There's always email for those who can't make it along though.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. gembo
    Member

    Focus, locked my bike there for work purposes, securely. So I am hopeful that secure bike locking will be possible. They have big lockers for individual bikes but would gauge that it will be possible for a number of bikes to be taken into the building etc. obviously, asking the folk running the focus group where bikes are going will be useful.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. 559
    Member

    TBH it wasn't the security aspects, it was more that the location is nowhere near the junction in question.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. Focus
    Member

    @ gembo

    That's at least some reassurance, thanks for sharing.

    @ 559

    Yes, I got that. I should have separated my first sentence from the following two to make that clearer. I assume that's as close as it gets to being "local". It's only 1.3 miles.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. Focus
    Member

    Just giving this a little bump in case anyone can make it along. I can't, unfortunately.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. LivD
    Member

    Stuff is happening at the junction. A lot of vegetation has been cut down and pulled out, there are drainage works happening, and probably more. Does anyone know what the final wish list was for the works?

    If it stops those path-covering puddles at the entrance to the Telford path, it'll be much appreciated.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. wingpig
    Member

    There was a crane or cherry-picker inside a wee fence-compound this evening and fresh mud scraped onto the path towards Drylaw. Suspect it'll just be drainage and sight-lines rather than tweaking the path-lines to make it more of a five-way junction instead of the perceived Roseburn-to-Drylaw-has-de-facto-priority current arrangement.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. LivD
    Member

    Oh I thought Roseburn to Telford (my route to work) had the de-facto priority :-)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  12. Focus
    Member

    Just be careful of the driver of the small earth mover when it's being used, he doesn't look behind him before swinging the bucket arm around!

    He may know he's not going to swing it into your path, but you don't!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  13. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    Here's a link to the draft plan for the junction that Paul Matthews, CEC Cycling Officer, sent out back in December. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkbylj5vr1k0cg4/Craigleith%20Cycle%20Junction-Layout1.pdf

    And a quote from an email in January:

    Following the recent consultation on the proposed path design I am pleased to say the proposal was supported by the majority of the respondents (11 out of 12). A few issues have been picked up and the final design now includes: additional signage, tactile paving and an extension to the drainage proposals. Thank you for your interest and comments.

    Another item I am now looking for your comment on and decision making is the proposed Information Board. The information board will be 2-sided with one side either 1) Nature; or 2) History related and the other will be a map of the pedestrian and cycle routes in the area.

    We are still hoping to get the path improvements constructed by the end of March 2014

    Posted 3 years ago #
  14. LivD
    Member

    Perfect, thank you Colonies Chris!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  15. Focus
    Member

    The positioning of the Give Way markings is interesting. By default, most riders or peds joining the path from either Maidencraig or Groathill usually slow down, pause or stop to see what's coming (if they are sensible). The markings are now going to give them priority. I suppose the plan is to slow down cyclists at a potential "interaction point".

    I don't have a huge problem with the idea but it does look to impede the natural flow of north/south traffic rather than assist it. Although I can be travelling both along and across any of the paths here, the Give Way markings will theoretically assist me going between the two roads, but I'd question whether any markings were actually necessary here at all.

    In fact, in Devil's Advocate mode, perhaps they could be a negative to safety as some riders will undoubtedly ignore the markings whilst other users (joining or crossing between roads) will expect everyone to obey them. Time will tell, I suppose.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  16. Dave
    Member

    My first instinct was 'ouch, do they really expect all the downhill riders to stop for someone to walk straight across both routes?' but then I suppose this is exactly the sort of traffic shaping we'd appreciate on motorised routes - imagine if you could cross the West Approach Road at ease because give way signs were painted on all the lanes.

    We've discussed previously that give way markings have no meaning on off-road paths (due to the specific wording of the legislation, I can't actually remember the detail other than the conclusion)

    It's the exact opposite of the way this junction currently works, so if nothing else it will be an interesting experiment! :)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  17. LivD
    Member

    I hope that the better sight lines will mean that it works quite smoothly. And that the signs on the path give joining pedestrians a cue that Bikes Are About. People shouldn't be charging through at 20mph anyway (opinion hat on) regardless of how nice and smooth it is and how the pedestrians don't mind being buzzed at 12 inches.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  18. LivD
    Member

    Rumble strips are horrid. I've not cycled today but there was also a horrendous bit of digging / trench across the path by a street light (on the Telford path bit). Tried to hop over it a bit but that looked dangerous, esp at night.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  19. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I don't think the requirement for "give way" type junctions really materlialised until someone invented the motor car.

    Retrospectively trying to enforce them onto the totally different way people flow and interact on mixed paths is just silly. Why not just install a mini roundabout and be done with it?*

    I'd be much more in favour of a solution that draws to the attention of all users coming from all directions that there is a junction ahead and to slow down and take care.

    Better still I'd rather that this not inconsiderable amount of money was spent doing something more constructive like dropping kerbs, putting in toucan crossings, tarmaccing "missing links" etc. But then again that's just a personal opinion.

    * half said facetiously, half said because they pretty much did this in Roseburn park by building a raised, circular flower bed in the middle of the path at a junction.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  20. BaseCut
    Member

    Really bad I would say. The rubble filled trench that they left overnight across the path was bad enough, but the rumble strips seem poorly laid, sit very proud and I think one of the sections of rumble strip was nicked overnight, as it was there when I went home last night and this morning there was a shallow trench where part of it had been - i had to hop over. Can't help thinking they're dealing with issues that weren't there. That said - if the puddles are dealt with then great to that extent.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  21. wingpig
    Member

    If the puddles aren't dealt with and they re-form in such a way as to conceal the rumblekerb it'll get unpleasantly interesting, particularly if it leaches away any gravel/sand/mud beneath/between the rumblebricks.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  22. Coxy
    Member

    'Tactile paving' | bricks

    Posted 3 years ago #
  23. Dave
    Member

    Probably the simplest solution is for someone to crash and sue the council, since I can't imagine half-burying odd bricks is in whatever national approved design manual applies, but it might take some financial risk for them to do anything about it.

    I almost rammed someone at this junction today because I was caught out coming down the 'arm' from Dalmeny (not my usual route) and ended up paying more attention to not getting a pinch flat than what the riders in front of me were doing.

    Really odd idea.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  24. wingpig
    Member

    "Really odd idea."

    Maybe it's the proximity to Craigleith Retail Park which has prompted the choice of orthogonal-edged rumblethings, as the car park entrances there have the same offset-brick road-lumping as Meadowbank, though Craigleith's have slightly wider bypass-channels at the edges, albeit sabotaged with a huge hole on the south exit.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  25. bax
    Member

    With regret the Council have failed to act on my proposal to rebrand Craigleith Junction as a Checkpoint Charlie styled floodlit 'experience', complete with stony-faced border guards on zero-hours contracts

    Nevertheless they've opted for the next best thing !

    There's gonna be a rumble in the jungle, tonite

    Posted 3 years ago #
  26. le_soigneur
    Member

    I *think* that the Roubaix rumble-bricks on the exits from Craigleith were designed to prevent trolleys being walked out. Fail.
    They have had more success with the by-product of making life difficult/hazardous for honest folk.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  27. Focus
    Member

    A few quick shots on my phone tonight:

    Tactile paving, coming from Maidencraig Cres

    The second ditch (more tactile paving, or perhaps the missing strip BaseCut referred to earlier?)

    Closer. It's filled with very soft sand, so hardly a safe way to leave it

    Rumble strips, Silverknowes route

    Rumble strips, approaching from Roseburn

    Pretty much all the lighting on the Roseburn strips is coming from my flash. Without better lighting, they could be a bit of a surprise to a first-timer.

    The rumble strips are pretty unpleasant. I'd guess of a couple of pound coins or more proud of the surface. They are the sort of bumps you're probably inclined to ride faster over, to lessen the discomfort. Kind of defeats the purpose!!!

    It's as though the council decided they'd made too good a job of removing the ploughed field effect of the tree routes near Roseburn and smoothing it over and so decided to replicate those bumps here as a memorial. :-(

    Posted 3 years ago #
  28. Stickman
    Member

    I'm sure there's some kind of infrastructure Newton's Law at work here.

    The council performs a good piece of development (surfacing the Pinkhill path). Therefore there must be an equal and opposite bad piece of development (the Craigleith junction).

    And thus order is restored to the universe.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  29. SRD
    Moderator

    I do t believe it. They've put blister tiles there? They're supposed to warn about carriageway. Corduroys etc for junctions on shared paths. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/289245/tactile-paving-surfaces.pdf

    How can they consistently get it wrong? ( if I'm misreading the pic please tell me now before I start engaging in correspondence)

    The brick stuff looks crappy too, of course. Better than chicanes? Dunno.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  30. Instography
    Member

    You sound like drivers complaining about speed bumps on residential streets.

    Posted 3 years ago #

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