CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Stuff

Focus Planet 2.0 vs Whyte Stirling for commuting?

(19 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by jdanielp
  • Latest reply from Greenroofer

  1. jdanielp
    Member

    Given that Heriot-Watt Uni is in theory starting a long awaited Bike to Work scheme in the new year (details of which have yet to emerge but I hope it will be flexible enough for this question to be valid), I am considering upgrading from an increasingly hybridised and well used Revolution Cuillin Sport MTB (2008) as my commuter bike.

    I'm torn btween the Focus Planet 2.0 and Whyte Stirling:

    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/focus-planet-2-0-14

    http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/products/whyte-stirling-14

    which are clearly very different bikes... So far I have been considering the following pros and cons, but would welcome thoughts from anyone who has useful insights :)

    Focus Planet 2.0 Pros:
    Ability to change hub gears while stationary,
    Fewer cables/mechanical parts to be worn out,
    Less regular cleaning required to keep going,
    No drive slippage with the carbon belt drive.

    Focus Planet 2.0 Cons:
    Difficulty and/or expense of changing belt or hub?
    Ease of changing rear punctures with belt and hub?
    Limited gear range? (upgradeable to 11 speed hub?)
    More appealing to bike thieves due to modern tech?

    Whyte Stirling Pros:
    Conventional drive train cheaper/easier to repair,
    More flexible for mudguards/pannier rack fitting?
    Weight approximately 10kg (Focus approx. 12kg),
    Wider gear range?

    Whyte Stirling Cons:
    Inability to change gears while stationary,
    More cables/mechanical parts to be worn out,
    Potential for slippage from chain and gears,
    Regular cleaning required to keep going well.

    I also have general concerns about switching to a bike with thinner tyres, in terms of smoothness of ride and potential for puncturing (currently on 26" Crossroads).

    Posted 11 years ago #

  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The Whyte has a SRAM GXP bottom bracket. These aren't the most inter-compatible with anything other than SRAM GXP crank arms, and I've heard bad things about how quickly the bearings wear down. If it's a commuter you might want to consider something with more standardised parts, as they will wear down and you will probably find yourself replacing them and not wanting to fork out for expensive, proprietary systems. Same goes for integrated headsets. They wear out on the frame and are best avoided for heavy use bikes.

    Ditto the 10 speed drivetrain on the Whyte. It will wear out faster than 8 speed (or the belt) and components more expensive to repair. It's not ideal for a commuter in my opinion.

    Never heard of MAxxis "Detonator" tyres, but I wouldn't ever want a tyre called "Detonator". I'd want it to be called "Chainmail" or "bulletproof".

    Focus has 35mm tyres vs. 28mm on the Whyte = extra comfort, theoretical less prone to pinch flats.

    Both seem to have front and rear eyelets for guards and rack.

    Lastly Whyte mentions a "narrow" bar. I get the impression it's trying too hard to be fashionable and put higher end road components in the mix. In reality for a good commuter you might want to "downgrade" to cheaper, more standardised parts that wear out slower. You are getting in my opinion a £500 bike with £500 of unneccessary components thrown in.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  3. amir
    Member

    I did have a hub geared bike and found it a bit sluggish for my taste. I also found the need to replace the chain was not much better than a derailleur. If you want a quick accelerating bike then better to look elsewhere.

    The Gates drive is attractive - nice and clean! It's not clear from the description how it's tensioned - either by an eccentric BB or something funny at the back end.

    Taking off the back wheel needn't be difficult - on my hub-geared I just needed a spanner and to unclip the gear cable - all very easy. You should ask for a demo.

    For any bikes, I'd recommend test riding first. Comfort is the most important thing.

    How far do you have to commute and over what type of terrain?

    Posted 11 years ago #

  4. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Kaps: "I wouldn't ever want a tyre called "Detonator""

    Ha!

    EBC sometimes hide their savings in extra weight. Can you compare their weights? This is a bike that you will have to hoik over kerbs, potholes and tramlines.

    As the wheels should never need replaced I would try to get a bike with lightweight wheels. Light wheels really improve the feel of a bike.

    I have an old Courier and it also has the long-wheelbase and short stem of these bikes. I find it twitchy. But anything longer might feel like steering a barge.

    Re. integrated headsets. People were saying bad things about them when I bought my road bike. They may well not last but ime you should get at least ten years use out of it.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  5. Baldcyclist
    Member

    My commuter is a Whyte CX bike. I like it. More a +ve on brand than components as mine is Shimano Tiagra, not SRAM.

    Can't comment on the tyres, mine are the same, and are in the garage having never been used. Wheels are the same as on my CX too, they're fine, but do pop spokes every so often on very rough terrain.

    Regards 10 speed drivetrain, SRAM is shimano compatible, so things like chain and cassette are relatively cheap even at 10 speed. You can get 10sp Tiagra cassette, and 105 chain for about £35 on wiggle which would work on that bike. I change them twice a year on mine.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  6. amir
    Member

    There is something to building a bike yourself. In principle it could be more expensive, but with careful buying this needn't be so and you get the bits that you want. As Cyclingmollie says, wheels (and tyres) are a good way to improve a bike. I would say that the different levels of a drive train (e.g. Sora vs Tiagra vs 105 vs Ultegra) are less important.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  7. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It's not a science, given ever-fluctuating prices and offers, but pricing up vaguely comparable 8-and-10 speed combinations on two popular internet retailists, a 10-speed cassette and chain was coming out almost double that of an 8-speed (£51.98 vs. 26.98) on Chainreaction and more than double on Wiggle (£45.58 vs. £20.38). So if you change chain and cassette twice a year, you're looking at almost exactly a £50 a year subsidy for the privelege of 10 speed componentry.

    Alas you'll struggle to buy a nice bike now from a big name that isn't 9 or 10 speed, you'd really need to be specifying your own.

    @Amir I suppose because the hub gear still has the chain outside, exposed to the elements, and its taking most of the same forces as a derailleur chain, it's going to wear out at a comparable speed.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  8. jdanielp
    Member

    Thanks for all of the comments so far. Much appreciated!

    @amir I have a 7.5 mile commute on the canal so cobbles are a factor, although frankly the roughest parts of my journey are sections of the road along Gilmore Place. I definitely intend to organise a test ride if I do end up spending that kind of money, and a demo of how to remove the back wheel etc. is certainly a good idea.

    I really like the idea of the Focus in that it *should* require far less regular maintenance since I rarely get around to cleaning my bike as often as I intend to, but I'm a little unsure about the practicality of belt+hub. I picked the Whyte Stirling for comparison basically as a similarly priced hybrid bike that looked pretty good.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  9. custard
    Member

    Have you considered a CX bike?
    Having recently moved from flat bar to drop bar CX. I think I prefer the CX

    Posted 11 years ago #

  10. Uberuce
    Member

    If you're going along the canal I'd say it's bow-wow barking I-wear-a-live-goat-for-a-hat-and-only-respond-to-the-name-Lord-Buttygoat-Of-Butt-Hall mad to pay for and maintain gears.

    Get a nice young singlespeed.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  11. jdanielp
    Member

    I haven't considered a CX bike due to not feeling terribly comfortable with drop handlebars, although I've not spent much time with them having said that... A singlespeed does kind of appeal to me a bit, but I'd like to have a fairly versatile bike since I don't have space for multiple bikes

    Posted 11 years ago #

  12. Uberuce
    Member

    Yes you do. Just throw out things like furniture or children.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    "since I don't have space for multiple bikes"

    That's a shame!

    There are quite a few people on here with more than one bike...

    Also some with 'stair problems' and 'no room in flat'.

    These are genuine problems for people in small/top/shared flats - especially where the stair already has a lot of bikes.

    CEC still hasn't really grasped 'secure bike parking instead of car parking'.

    Plenty of people have always managed with 'all purpose bikes'.

    'In the old days' a three speed hub was almost a "luxury".

    Nowadays - apart from a certain fashion for one gear - people expect LOTS!

    Some people get a 'new bike' by changing their tyres for winter!

    Posted 11 years ago #

  14. Jackson Priest
    Member

    Re. SRAM gxp bb - I've got one on one of my bikes, had it for about 6 years, came as stock on one bike, then I transferred it onto another bike what I built up, prob done about 15k miles in all sorts of @x!*@!%^( weather, commuting and long winter runs etc, and it's always behaved in the most pleasantly lovely manner.

    Probably shouldn't have said that.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  15. Uberuce
    Member

    When it got here first and been around ever since and is plainly better than those TRAITORS with their freewheels, fixed is not a 'fashion' you silly, silly chdot.

    Admittedly two of my four bikes are geared, but that's only because gears are plainly better in two circumstances: being knackered and still having 50 miles til home; conveying cargo/sproglets.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  16. Roibeard
    Member

    Regarding hub geared bikes still requiring regular chain replacement - I think hub gears make it easier to protect the chain (and the trousers/skirt) with a full chain guard. Hence the maintenance could be reduced even further by protecting the chain from the "elements" (i.e. road salt!).

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #

  17. ianmb
    Member

    I've got a Whyte Cambridge so pretty similar to the Stirling.

    Was a good step up from a Revolution Courier. Light, quick and good on my hilly commute home, a really nice ride. Tyres were pretty useless and replaced after one puncture too many so not as puncture resistant as they claim to be.

    Main gripe is the rear wheel. Three broken spokes on separate occasions so EBC just done a full rebuild. I hope the problem doesn't happen again but maybe a Whyte commuter bike is not a match for Edinburgh's potholed streets.

    The Courier has been kept as a spare and will be getting used as a winter bike.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  18. gembo
    Member

    Had bad experience with Nexus 8 hub gears. Lithium grease inside hub not able to cope with Scottish rain. If buying a hub gear then make sure the hub has decent seals. some of the Alfine range that replaced the nexus are Ok but some may still have issues. I now have very reliable Sturmey Archer 3 spd on the bike that had the nexus 8 which is a specialized crossroads. Quite a heavy bike, 3 gears not quite enough for my hilly commute home. Fine for canal. Not really the number of gears but the range.

    Will you need spammers for the back wheel? Or spanners? some people swear by hub gears. Big GED at EBC went along the canal then off to Dalmeny on his commute,if I am not mistaken and loved them. MR G at EBC could always fix the nexus 8 with bits of other broken nexus 8s. That isn't allowed now. But as I say, some of the newer hub gears might be better.

    Posted 11 years ago #

  19. Greenroofer
    Member

    I have an Alfine 8, used for three years of towpath commuting all year round. Just coming up for 10,000 miles out of it with no issues. It's been serviced twice in that time.

    I have Marathon Plus tyres, so the last time I took the wheel off was spring to change out of the studded tyres for the summer, but it's no big deal to get it off. You need one or two spanners for the wheel nuts, a teeny allen key (or small screwdriver) to detension the gear cable and something (pliers/flat screwdriver) to ping it off the hub. Sure it's slower than a QR wheel, but it's not like it takes ages.

    I still replace the chain regularly, but am gradually moving to thicker and thicker chains to see if they last longer. I have a chain tensioner, so I don't have to adjust anything as the chain loosens. I don't know if this makes changing the wheel easier or harder.

    I'd like a belt drive for reasons of cleanliness above all. My major concern would not be belt tension, but in how to get the wheel in absolutely square: I do wonder if the 'Centretrac' (spellling?) system is a tacit admission from Gates that imperfectly aligned sprockets throw the belt off after a time.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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