CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

Edinburgh's "Finest's" attitude to cars in the bus lane

(27 posts)
  • Started 12 months ago by kaputnik
  • Latest reply from steveo

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  1. kaputnik
    Member

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos
    Miffed cyclist points out to police car it (and many other cars behind) are in the bus lane.

    Police pull over cyclist and then invent a phantom bus that he "nearly went under".

    Not sure how this didn't come to our mutual attentions yet, it's from earlier in the year.

    Wow. I didn't think any police officer would be as stupid to invent things that clearly aren't there on camera, after being ignoring a raft of traffic violations behind and infront of them*. Wow.

    * not sure of technicalities of police car in the bus lane. Previous discussion ended up rather vague on the subject

    Posted 12 months ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Member

    Oh I've just twigged it's the same person that caught the cornflakes driver.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  3. steveo
    Member

    Do we know what came of this? I have to wonder if this situation would have developed were it not for the camera, would the rider have just ignored the police and shrugged a TIE and moved on, dunno.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  4. kaputnik
    Member

    The science of hindsight is a wonderful thing (which the poster admits in the caption) and in a perfect world it would have been better to carry on, bite tongue and write a strongly worded letter to the papers, MP, Police etc.

    But sometimes you just want the police to do their job... And of course it's a hanging offence to get lippy, isn't it.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  5. Stickman
    Member

    Don't know the legalities of it all but it does strike me as being two annoyed polis trying to teach someone a lesson.

    He probably shouldn't have knocked on their window, even gently, as that just gives them a reason to go after him.

    Would be interesting to know what happened afterwards.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  6. steveo
    Member

    Don't know the legalities of it all but it does strike me as being two annoyed polis trying to teach someone a lesson.

    Thats exactly how it is. No one likes to be called out for doing something their not meant to be, some drivers get annoyed and punishment pass, others stop and try to start a fight and the polis throw their weight around. They of all people should have know to bite their lip and move on. I'd be interested to here what their boss had to say.

    But sometimes you just want the police to do their job... And of course it's a hanging offence to get lippy, isn't it.
    I completely agree. I'm just being a little introspective and wondering if I'd have handled it any better, probably not. I'd only hope to get their station and bosses name.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  7. kaputnik
    Member

    My annoyance is that the two officers considered someone being a bit lippy and pointing out the error of their ways an offence more worthy of their time than doing something about every single car hogging the bus lane.

    I think I'm naturally a bit more guarded in my language and tone of voice than the poster, unless it's a taxi parked on double yellows at Haymarket or someone who's tried to send me to hospital, but I'd have lost it and exclaimed "What F****** BUS?!" if anyone had invented a bus and said I'd almost been under it.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  8. steveo
    Member

    Yeah I'd have lost it at that too!

    Posted 12 months ago #
  9. Instography
    Member

    I stopped using my camera because nothing ever happens on my commute (cos it's mostly path) but I'd have thought the main advantage would be to avoid that sort of thing. You've got the film and the registration, why would you want to expose yourself to the abuse and the hassle of remonstrating with drivers, especially coppers?

    I can understand if someone's almost killed you that you lose it and shout and swear but a situation like this? No need. Nah, don't get it. Unless you've gone and called yourself Raging Bike - I get it: Robert de Niro on a bike. I guess he chose that for a reason.

    From IMDB: An emotionally self-destructive boxer's journey through life, as the violence and temper that leads him to the top in the ring, destroys his life outside it.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  10. kaputnik
    Member

    "OK Stirlin', aff the bike. Aff the bike!"

    Somewhat amusingly, the police Twitter account now thinks it's my video.

    Shall clarify the situation.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  11. cb
    Member

    The policeman said it was truck not a bus. Not that he was nearly under it.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Member

    The policeman said it was truck not a bus

    Clearly says truck at first. Then bus on 2 occasions. Not that he was nearly under anything :)

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    Posted 12 months ago #
  13. cb
    Member

    Ah, I was going to say that I never watched it to the end!

    Posted 12 months ago #
  14. Focus
    Member

    My opinion: Badly handled by both cyclist and cop #1. Cop #2, whilst sticking up for his mate, remained calm and didn't trade insults.

    Now, I freely admit to trying to teach people the law at times, losing my temper at dangerous or selfish incidents and, sometimes, swearing, but this guy lost the plot way too easily and didn't do his case any good.

    Sure, cop #1 does say "bus" but he did initially say "truck" and he got a bit mixed up: "truck" + "bus lane" = "bus". He just got a bit tongue-twisted. However, he was clearly trying to use the presence of a truck to accuse the cyclist of endangering himself, which he equally clearly didn't.

    If I had wanted to make a stand on the issue on the spot, I would have got their attention, maybe with a tap on the window whilst stationary if I really couldn't do it just by talking (which should have been easy enough) and ask if I could speak to them round the corner. Shouting "All of you" etc made him sound like he was trying to be a macho cop himself and it sounds a bit silly on video to be honest.

    The other thing he ought to have done is ask to speak to the driver as he was clearly the more controlled speaker and that could have diffused the situation. As for riding away from the cops when asked to come over, that was dumb - you challenged them, you can't then run away when they challenge you back. They may have been doing something wrong but they were definitely within their rights to take details by that stage. Bad as the cop was handling it, I doubt there was going to be a charge levelled at the cyclist, just a talking to (deserved or not), and yet he swore more than once. Not smart.

    In summary, yes, there was a valid thing to complain about: eight vehicles in the bus lane whilst it's use was restricted (cops didn't deny that so I must assume that was the case).

    But no, it wasn't handled well by the cyclist and gave the cop the opportunity to handle it as badly himself.
    Finally, styling yourself as "Raging Bike" may have sounded funny when he set up the account, but immediately creates a bad image - one which the police will probably become aware of if the guy keeps this up. I don't have a problem with publishing videos of bad driving and so on, it's the way they are presented which can become a problem, and I think he's done cycle video usage no favours.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  15. Focus
    Member

    Oh, and just noticed he mentions he was on a Strava PB, so it could be argued his full attention wasn't on getting from A to B safely. I certainly wouldn't be trying to set a PB in rush hour traffic. I wouldn't even know if I was setting one till I looked at the figures at my leisure.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  16. Instography
    Member

    Yes, the Strava PB. To be honest, in my view, that just makes him a bad driver on a bike. He's angry because these people, including the cops, are in his way, impeding his progress. Bloody motorists.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  17. Bigjack
    Member

    I'd love to hear the Police Scotland view on the law regarding illegal use of bus lanes by motorists (and police cars- or are they exempt????)

    Posted 12 months ago #
  18. gembo
    Member

    I think Raging Bike is at least aware that he may have some anger control issues.

    Polis are human beings and therefore subject to the same distribution of anger control issues as the rest of us. Even on the video the second polis is felt to be more measured.

    as an organisation Police Scotland do have procedures to allow us to complain. In this instance I doubt even an apology would have been forthcoming for the bobbies being in the bus lane but that would be the limit of it. people stay out of bus lanes when enforced, police would have operational reasons to be in a bus lane.

    Getting shirty with the police is quite a bad idea.

    Raging about cars in a bus lane? In hindsight as the guy sees himself, better to have sailed on by, even as a protest .

    for example, on my commute the traffic snarls at various pinch points, mostly you can filter carefully. There is a window cleaner in a black focus who edges into the kerb to stop you filtering and if you go round his outside he chucks coffee at you. However, if you bump up onto the pavement then push by you can get in front of him easily. warning - never chap his window, he has far greater anger issues than the dudes in the movie at the top.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  19. Roibeard
    Member

    When dealing with the police, simply ask for their collar number (which is probably on display anyway), don't engage further at then time, then complain to Police Scotland.

    It's the equivalent of taking the registration number of a vehicle and complaining later, except:

    1) The individual is uniquely identified, not just the vehicle.

    2) The police will investigate complaints about their officers, whereas they will just shrug when you complain about the general public's driving standards.

    Robert

    Posted 12 months ago #
  20. Instography
    Member

    The guy with the coffee would be worth getting on film a few times and then reporting him.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  21. algo
    Member

    Whoever this is is clearly a fast and competent cyclist, but does appear to enjoy the confrontation here a bit too much, although his other videos seem to show less remonstration.

    One thing I like about the Edinburgh based cycle camera users is that there is very little remonstration I can see - unlike a lot of London based ones who appear to relish the opportunity for a shouting match, and it becomes less about the issues of sharing the road safely and more about voyeurism.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  22. Darkerside
    Member

    Mm, refusing to provide details to a police officer is rarely a good idea...

    http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/02/08/when-do-you-have-to-give-your-details/

    Posted 12 months ago #
  23. steveo
    Member

    Indeed, almost always better to comply but at the same time make sure you've got their details and you proactively persue the issue given the video evidence.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  24. Morningsider
    Member

    The Council's website is pretty clear that emergency service vehicles can use bus lanes at any time:

    http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/1526/public_and_accessible_transport/1655/bus_lane_enforcement/2

    Also, pretty sure that this is a rush-hour only bus lane. It isn't clear that it was in operation at the time the video was shot.

    Posted 12 months ago #
  25. ARobComp
    Member

    I realise that I know the chap who films these. He's a nice guy who does a lot iof start-up stuff. I can try and get the story of what happened from him if you want?

    Posted 12 months ago #
  26. kaputnik
    Member

    Regardless of how "clever" it is to challenge the police on an issue you might be wrong about (their being in the bus lane), that's a personal choice and nothing to do with how he was cycling. If the Police wanted to book him for giving them lip, they should have done that, not "careless cycling" which his film suggests he never did. I think perhaps Policeman #1 got a bit flustered as perhaps he was unsure if he was allowed to be in the bus lane (even though it transpires he was).

    I think the first response from the Police should have been "thank you for your concern, sir, Emergency vehicles are allowed to be in the buslane" and then to check if the buslane was in operation at the time to see if the cyclists allegations were indeed correct. I think this might have defused things better as the cyclist was getting wound up that they were ignoring what he was pointing out to them and taking an issue with him instead (and doing him for careless cycling, when ultimately they were doing him for being "wide").

    @ARobComp - he also took the cornflakes driver video. The Police twitter person was keen to get details so they can establish date and time to follow up on that. Perhaps you could mention to him to report it, if he hasn't already?

    Posted 12 months ago #
  27. steveo
    Member

    The constables should have calmed raging bike down and delt with this better. They are trained to and should be held to the training. I know in a similar situation I'd have been more than a little flustered too, it probably comes accross worse in the video while he's trying to get his breath back. Details should have been exchanged and the whole thing left for another day at which point every one has had a chance to calm down a little. Constable two did try but it was probably too late, once the cyclist was pulled over to the side (almost physically) we were heading for a less than ideal outcome.

    But as mentioned above hindsight is perfect.

    Posted 12 months ago #

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