CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Front lights: flashing or not?

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  1. Kenny
    Member

    Inspired by both the "Do bicycle lights make any difference to cyclist safety?" thread, and the fact that I cannot not figure out where a bike is if its front light is flashing in such a way my brain can't work it out, I thought I'd ask the question - what do you do with your front light - flashing or solid? And why?

    I used to have mine flashing, under the belief that it was easier for cars to see it, but that was back in the day when my front light was quite weak. My current front light is really quite bright, so even though I have it pointed at the ground 6 feet in front of my front wheel, I still have it solid, I feel it's easier for others to see it, easier for people to determine where I am, and less annoying for other road users.

    Plenty of bike riders have their front light flashing though, so thought I'd ask why? Battery conservation might be a factor? I have rechargeable AAs in my lights, so I don't mind mine draining faster.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. Uberuce
    Member

    I have solid on the bike and blinky on my helmet. If I only have one light set, it's on solid.

    Blinky says 'bike' and as you said, solid makes it easy to determine what my velocity is. When I'm in unlit places, I tend to turn off the lid blinky.

    There is at least one brand of front light that has a variable blink mode. It takes dangerously long* to work out what it's doing.

    *'opinion stated as fact' alert etc.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. gembo
    Member

    Have quite a few wee blinks lights front and back these days. Do have big solid light at front but I often set it at low level and binky. Sometimes flip it round and have more solid beams if visibility poorer.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    I've usually got an always on generator headlight. On a Brompton they are quite low which is good for seeing bumps on the road but I don't know how well it works for people in cars. I usually have a wee flasher on the handlebars too. Need some Knog batteries.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    Aldi quite cheap for CR2032 batteries tho Internet deals abound.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. Focus
    Member

    If I only have one light lit, it will normally be in flash mode. If I need to read the underwheel conditions better, then it goes on solid.

    If I am also running my more powerful lights (either my new Cree or my Cateye twin halogens) they will be on solid*, whilst the other light remains on flash.

    (* The Cree is a bit too much on flash, whilst the Cateye's naturally don't have a flash mode). My lights are always bar-mounted.

    Rightly or wrongly, I work on the premise that a flashing light a) says bike and b) is just that bit more irritating and therefore noticeable. The latter reason is of course non-scientific. If it is harder to judge the exact distance, I work on the possibility that an approaching road user will need to exercise more caution until they can make out my position precisely. Again, that can only be a theory unless I was to poll every person who sees me.

    So in short, brighter conditions = flashing; unclear surface conditions = steady; lower lighting = one flashing, one or more powerful lights steady.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. wee folding bike
    Member

    Hadn't thought of Aldi for batteries. Another reason to like that shop.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. Instography
    Member

    I have a solid dynamo front light that is always on and a blinky, firing straight ahead to catch wing mirrors and rear views. I only use the blink on roads - between home and FRB and from Haymarket to the office.

    Rear setup is the same - solid and blinky.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. Snowy
    Member

    If it's decently bright, then solid is good. For lesser lights, flashing has the plus side of extra powers of noticeability (made up word warning) but the downside that a quick glance by a driver may catch your flashy light during an 'off' moment.

    I'm experimenting in traffic with a small helmet blinky and a handlebar mounted Cree pointed pretty much straight down on mental-flash mode. This seems to get a lot of attention without dazzling or upsetting anyone. Mind you, it feels slightly like the bike equivalent of having led lighting under your car.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Focus
    Member

    @ Snowy

    Complete the look with electronically controlled suspension and a couple sets of loud Bluetooth speakers on the rear end to play "music" from your phone/mp3 player ;-)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. custard
    Member

    always run both excluding unexpected battery failures
    On the CX i had to put the blinky on a fork leg as theres no room on the bars with the extra brake levers

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Charterhall
    Member

    I don't have a problsm with low powered supplementary flashing front lights but I really think that high powered flashing front lights should be banned. Having one of these coming directly towards you on a narrow unlit path is a total nightmare.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Darkerside
    Member

    Front is the massively-lensed IQ2 on solid. I'm quite happy with initial impression being motorbike rather than bike.

    Back is another solid big-lensed job combined with a smaller light that pulses (as in 'gentle fade in and out' rather than on/off) to give the 'might be moving slower than you'd expect' impression.

    If cars have foglights on the magicshine rear goes on. Steady, horizontal and axle height.

    Personal feeling is that big, relatively bright and steady wins.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. Bhachgen
    Member

    When it's proper dark - usually one solid and one blinky, both front and back.

    Blinky draws attention quickly and says "bike ahead", solid light helps to judge speed and distance better.

    Solid front obviously helps me see the road better when required too.

    Dusk/dawn/mizzle/fog etc - blinky all the way.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. PS
    Member

    [I posted this earlier on the wrong lights thread...]

    Anecdotal and all that, but sitting in a car at the Blackhall traffic lights in the gloaming yesterday evening cyclists I saw coming the other way were a lot more noticeable and from a distance away when they used flashers rather than still lights. The 6 or 7 I saw all seemed to have decent lights, so kudos to them.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. fimm
    Member

    On the Brompton: two lights front, two lights rear. One of each on flash, the other on continuous. None of those lights are very high powered.

    On the road bike: two "be seen" lights on the rear; one on flash, one not, as before. On the front: a not very good, considering how much it cost, cateye that does not have a flash mode, and a much brighter light which I need to see where I'm going on unlit roads. This light is pointed down, and is only on its highest setting out of town, in town I turn it down. It also has a flash setting which I think is far too bright in the dark - however I have used it in daylight a few times recently, in the early(ish) morning and out of town when I felt that anything extra to add to the "HELLO! I am here!" effect was worth having. It is the only light I own that I would bother using in daylight, none of the others are powerful enough.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. skotl
    Member

    I agree with the majority.

    £15 cateye on blinky and a B&M ixus either;

    a) off, in twilight
    b) solid (they don't flash) at 10 lux in town, at night
    c) solid at 40 lux on unlit roads

    As an aside, when in #C mode, I dim it to 10 lux if another cylist is coming toward me but not if another car is coming toward me.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. Kenny
    Member

    One thing that occurred to me after posting, but when I was nowhere near a computer, was not just whether they flash, but *how*. Lights that flash but are on, say, 80% of the time are vastly less problem for me than those which are on only 20% of the time. I have great difficulty with those, because they are essentially strobing, whereas the ones that are pretty much on all the time but go "off" briefly are far better, both for me to see where they are, and for others as they are not blinded.

    YMMV. Thoughts?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. Stickman
    Member

    At the front - one solid, one pulsing on the bike plus one flashing on the helmet

    At the rear - one "sequence" flashing (think it's called Knight Rider mode - two out of four LEDs are on at any time) plus another flashing on the helmet.

    Don't know if that's too much/not enough/just right.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. Dave
    Member

    I've had a few close calls on NEPN where I thought the oncoming rider was much further away than they were, while overtaking a slower rider going my way.

    Boring old solid lights for me, and no issues being seen, ever.

    I think flashing is good if your lights are otherwise hard to see, but I'd rather have a proper one and just have it on.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. KarenJS
    Member

    I agree with @ charterhall that high powered flashing lights on an unlit path is a nightmare, came across this on the innocent path today. Aside from confusing me, I did wonder if the rider could actually see the path it was so on/off.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. allebong
    Member

    2 lights on the bars, both quite bright so dipped appropriately, on road one is steady and the other is on flash. The flash on this light is a steady on-off rather than a rapid strobe. On unlit bits of canal/path etc both bar lights are steady.

    During the day when it's dull/drizzly or otherwise bad conditions the helmet light goes on the bars as it has a more rapid strobe flash that's very attention getting without being dazzling or annoying during the day.

    I don't mind rapid flashing lights along the canal if they're just the little blinky ones, though I don't know how people cope without them throwing any seeing-light. The bright, piercing strobing ones are a nightmare.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. Uberuce
    Member

    I have ridden around Harrison Park with a 650 lumen strobe on my head for photographic purposes:

    It was a ruddy nightmare. You can see from the light trails that it's off 80% of the time, but when it's on it's fearsome. Very disorienting, and if I hadn't been in a largely deserted park that I know like the back of my hand, I would have quit.

    That mode is described as Daylight Visibility and it is quite counter-intuitive to activate, so the fact it exists isn't truly insane; I do use it in daylight dreichness.

    That is one of three times that light has ever been on the helmet mount. One of the other two times fimm was modelling it for me, and the last was yesterday in Harrison Park again, as I compared it with the light powered by my new Dave-plagiarising dynodrum commuter front wheel.

    In terms of sheer photon muscle, the IQ Fly is hugely outperformed by the NiteRider 650, but the beam pattern is so much smarter that I can see the road/path more clearly, and the horizontal cut-off is bound to be friendlier to oncoming persons.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. allebong
    Member

    For serious darkness I have one of these on the bars with a diffuser lens and one of these on the helmet. Both of them have rapid strobe modes but I can never fathom out why. I suppose for the hand torch you could maybe argue it might come in handy to get attention for whatever reason but why wouldn't you just wiggle it about for the same effect....the bar light on the other hand has absolutely no use for the strobe setting but the way it's set up you often have to select it for a second or two before it'll turn completely off. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest when I say you could quite easily cause a crash or at least a pant-wetting moment if you put the strobe on in town or in the country, even with it dipped and the diffuser lens on. It's not happened yet as I know the quirks of the buttons and modes now but still...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. Kenny
    Member

    I nearly came a cropper this evening when going from East Barnton Avenue to Queensferry Road through the small and phenomenally dark dirt track outside the high school. Someone was coming towards me with a strobe light on, and I almost rode into them because I was so blinded by the light. If it had been on steady, I doubt it would have been a problem at all - I can look towards an always-on light, even if it is bright, but I can't look anywhere near a flashing light of the same power.

    I realised this once when riding along the NEPN with my own front light on flashing mode, as I had pedestrians actually stop and shield their eyes when I rode towards them. I've never had that once with a solid light on. So mine is staying on solid from now on.

    (Rear light is a different story; one solid, two flashing, but they are red and thus far less distracting)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Blueth
    Member

    If the chap I saw last week with eight front lights, all flashing out of sequence and at varying heights, is reading this he may care to know that, actually, he was nowhere near as visible as he presumably thought he was. I'm not sure why but maybe something to do with breaking up his shape and the differing light levels between them.

    Conventionally lit bikes were more obvious. Maybe someone can give a scientific explanation?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. allebong
    Member

    'Maybe someone can give a scientific explanation? '

    No but I'll try :P

    You can't take notice of every single flashing light you see as it'd be complete overload. Indicators, bike lights, headlights being cut on and off in the spaces between moving traffic etc. Your brain has to filter it down. So perhaps the guy with all the flashing lights was just reduced to background noise and ignored as that doesn't fit the profile of a bike. A single, steady light moving along at handlebar height is immediately identifiable as a bike however as that, consciously or not, is what people will be looking out for.

    I'll take my Nobel prize in the post please.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. KarenJS
    Member

    @allebong I like your theory. There must be a reason that other road vehicles do not use flashing lights, apart from indicators, and I think this is it, sensory overload.

    Do remember us when you're famous ;-)

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. Uberuce
    Member

    I will attempt an alternate scientific(aka I am making it up as I go along) theory: the human visual system evolved the way it did because the ability to note and track moving objects of roughly constant illumination is a vital survival skill, and so it noting new objects coming into the field of view.

    The latter is why blinky is so so eye-catching. The former is why solid lights are easier to track.

    With a swarm of..oh hang on, I'm actually saying the same thing as allebong. Your eye/brain system just gives up when confronted by too many new objects, and can't tell you what the velocity of the group is.

    What I would be very interested to see is the effect that rider would have if his or her brightest light was on solid.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. Blueth
    Member

    I think Allebong has the best explanation of what I experienced.

    The prize is too valuable to trust to the post so I'll hand it over next time we happen to meet in Stockholm :-)

    Posted 10 years ago #

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