Time to dust off my perenial grumble about the use of head torches on cycle paths.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Those over-bright lights again
(141 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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Twice last week I got shouted at for apparently dazzling the same bloke on a MTB coming through Roseburn Park at around 6.20am. At least I think that's what he was on about - he's so wrapped up in a thick coat, with a woolly hat and a scarf tied over his face that all I catch is "Mffffhh hmffff hmmfff" and an arm gesticulating wildy and pointing in the direction of my lights (Ay-Ups).
Now - the light is angled downwards and is illuminating a spot on the ground about 6ft in front of me. It's not pointing up as it's not illuminating any of the reflective details on other riders or low street signs. I've stood back from the bike in the car-park at work with the lights on to see if it's dazzling me. It isn't. I've ducked down thinking the other rider could be lower down when riding and be dazzled that way. It still didn't shine and dazzle me.
No-one else has commented, shielded their eyes, looked away or had their face obviously illuminated by my lights when I'm riding.
Perhaps I should shout back and tell him he should get some lights on his bike as he's riding round unlit and in dark clothing? ;-)
To be honest he looks like a a bit of a nutter, so might be wiser and safer to just ignore him.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Never had a problem with bike lights. Being blinded by cars is a common occurrence though (indicators, hazards, & spinning lights in particular).
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Kaputnik, can we add anyone who uses a flashing front light on an unlit cyclepath to that list please.
The only place I see a headtorch on a bike making sense is when riding singletrack or other technical off road sections where oncoming traffic is unlikely.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@threefromleith
Obviously I have seen you lights in the car park !
And they are the most down pointed lights I have ever seen - there is no way they blind anyone.
I have my lights on again, but thats because I sometimes come in early and it is dark/gloomy.
Front only on half power though, perferctly fine and non-blindy.
Have definitely seen a lot of flashy front lights this week though - very odd.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I stopped worrying about dazzling people when I discovered that switching to nice horizontal cut-off dynamo lights made absolutely zero difference to the number of complaints I get (always from the same few usual suspects).
One downside of dynamo lights is that you can't hop off and see what they look like, but that's outweighed by the clear visibility of the cut-off beam as you ride along, i.e. strong reflections from a rider's pedals and not from signage etc.
My advice is just to stop caring. Some people don't like bikes which have proper lights, even strictly conforming StVZO ones - there are more important things to worry about than them, like not crashing off on unlit paths or being mown down by an texting driver.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Had my first eye-shielding the other evening, going along the canal. Since I too have schmancy-pants dynamo cut-offs, I only saw the gesture since he was back-lit and slihouetted from the lights across the water.
I suspect it could be that they look at the light intensity on the ground ahead of the bike and shield early. The number of Germany-approved but bright lights is presumably far outweighed by offroad-design photon grenades.
Posted 10 years ago # -
You're all clearly wildly antisocial with your lighting over there.
Over the past week every bike I've seen* in the dark has been lit (amazingly), most of them lit to what I would consider a reasonable standard, and only one (rear) light OTT.
It won't last. But for now, I bask in Glasgow's superiority.
*comments along the lines of "you didn't see the ninja ones" will be unwelcome.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Uberuce - this is one drawback of dynamo lights: you can't see the faces of people coming towards you in the dark.
I suspect that many of the canal regulars think I turn into a right grumpy so-and-so in the winter after a summer of cheery waves and greetings. They can see my very bright (but not dazzling) light, so may assume that I can recognise them from a distance. Actually, I can't see their face at all in the dark, and so tend to blank them completely.
Posted 10 years ago # -
If the only light source is on your bike then it's fair to say if you can recognise the face of the oncoming rider then your lights are too bright.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Uberuce, I assume I have one of those photon pump/grenade lights. There's no shaping to the beam. But I point the beam towards a point about five or six metres in front of me. With my old, low powered lights I used to angle them straight ahead so that cars could see me. Is the problem that people are using Crees without pointing them down or that even pointed down unshaped Cree beams are blinding?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think the problem with an unshaped beam is that it is a cone of dazzling light with a relatively wide angle at the apex of the cone. While the centre bright spot may be 6m in front of you (and the axis of the cone therefore pointing gently down) the 'base' of the cone can still extend upwards into oncoming people's eyes.
This is a roundabout way of saying that to point an unshaped beam down enough to make it not blinding, it would need to point down so much that it wouldn't be much use.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've tried it out in the garden with a 300 lumen Moon. The brightest area is quite tightly focused on the ground at about 5 metres. Outside that cone the illumination falls away quite sharply. Looking at it from maybe 7 metres it's not dazzling; no worse than a car on dipped headlights. I use it at half power and that's enough to see the road by and to avoid potholes. I don't think the problem lies in the beam shape if the Moon 300 is anything to go by.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Ludicrously bright light on the towpath this morning. It was daylight and I was still dazzled by it.
In this context, more is not necessarily better.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I wonder if it was the same guy I saw at 1045ish. Heading out of town, and if I recall the rest of the bike correctly, it was flat-barred device with the look of a tourer.
Dazzled me, either way.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@Uberuce. This was earlier: I saw him heading east at about 0740.
I think the bike might have had flat bars, but to be honest his light was so bright it was hard to see them.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Interesting reading this thread. I haven't bought a set of lights yet (only started cycling this summer) but feel that the time has come to purchase a set. There is obviously a lot of opinions/advice out there but my list of 'wants' from a light set are:
- Not more than £75
- must be able to be charged by USB
- Waterproof
- enough lumens to light up cyclepath/A90 route
- be able to be pointed/tilted downwards
- easy mounting system
- energy efficient mode??
- anything else????I haven't decided whether to helmet mount or bike mount; I don't have the experience to know the difference. I also don't want to go down the dynamo route just yet.
My commute is Fife to Edinburgh so mainly cyclepaths (don't know if that influences the best light to get or not).
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I got myself a iaMOutdoor 1200 Lumen Rechargeable Waterproof Head Torch & Bike Light for 25£ from China.
It has been a year already and works well enough.I keep the battery in my pocket and attach the light to the handlebar when needed.Posted 10 years ago # -
I had the same commute (in reverse) and I bought two different sets of rechargeable lights before I got a dynamo, and wish I'd known then what I know now.
I don't have any recommendations I'm afraid. I have > £100 Ay-Ups for mountain biking but they're not as good as the dynamo lights and the batteries don't last forever (physically), then you're looking at most of the purchase cost again to get new ones.
A good dynamo will set you back somewhere over £50 (see i.e. this one on sale at Wiggle) and then you're probably talking the same again once it's built into a wheel, maybe?
Afterwards you do get to enjoy cheap replacement lights. A top quality headlight only costs £35 and they last forever.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I was in the same position as you Beano earlier this year. I wanted something that I could transfer between three different bikes and didn't weigh much. I went to Paul at Ace Bikes and he showed me a load of battery lights. I bought a Moon X300. It's USB charged, runs up to 6.5 hours on standard setting (110 lumens), has five modes, has adjustable handlebar mount and helmet mount and is water resistant (whatever that means). I think it cost about £55. At its high setting it sends out 300 lumens which is enough to temporarily blind someone at close range, hence all the anger about the irresponsible use of these Cree LED lights. it really does have to be pointed down at the ground maybe seven or eight metres ahead. it is absolutely not for turning night into day up ahead though it can do that.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Try a cateye volt 300 at the front, with maybe a moon cresent at the back, that should come in uhder £75 if you shop around.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Do any unlit path dynamo lamps bolt to the handlebars? I never got round to either building my new lightweight lamp for the racer or the wheel to power it last year so throwing money at the problem...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Beano, as I've said before in this thread (IMHO) head torches are totally inappropriate for any situation where you are cycling towards another person. These are designed to allow you to see the fine detail you need for high speed singletrack riding and as they will point at anything you look at will render oncoming traffic unable to look see you.
If you think about the width of the path alongside the A90 and the effect of crosswinds would you really want to ride past someone who cannot see the path?
Unfortunately any light has potential to dazzle, especially if the ground is wet but a handlebar mounted light is easier to point down. A light which is easy to adjust when there is oncoming traffic can be useful so having to many settings to cycle through can be a nuisance.
My lights are AA powered and will run for about a week of commuting before needing recharged (although I also carry a spare as it goes from full to flat relatively quickly.)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Okay, better question. Any reason this wouldn't fit on a bike with carbon forks?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Thanks for all the advice guys and yes ACS I am totally with you on the A90 path thing - its narrow enough without having the dazzle effect.
I was thinking bike mounted to be fair rather than helmet. I'll have a look at the suggestions above but saw these on my lunch break which seemed to get good reviews:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/lezyne-macro-front-micro-rear-light-set/rp-prod111711
@dave I like the thought of a dynamo but think I will go with a light set first. I have disc brakes so a quick google seems to make the dynamo option a bit pricier and I don't have a n+1 yet :-)
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Okay, better question. Any reason this wouldn't fit on a bike with carbon forks?"
If it has a hole in the fork to mount it, it should be fine. There are brackets available to handlebar mount f required.
My steel frame didn't have a hole to mount it on mine, so I drilled 2 holes through the fork to fit mine. 1 hole should have done except for the fact I was relying on Mrs B to make sure the drill bit was in the middle of the fork as I couldn't see inside the fork from where I was drilling. My fault really, as I only asked if it was centred in the fork 3 times as I was drilling. Still. fork hasn't broken yet so it must be fine.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It has a hole for the calliper to go through, does it mount to the brake's bolt?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"It has a hole for the calliper to go through, does it mount to the brake's bolt?"
Aye, might need a wee bit longer bolt, but it will mount to the inside of the calliper.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cool thanks. Now just to pick the exact model.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've already been blinded a couple of times this autumn, but I have also had my lights on at times so I hope that I haven't blinded anyone else. When it gets fully dark I have a tiny old Gü pudding pot with its end removed that I slot over my Nightrider Mako 200 USB front light so I can run it at full power without feeling too guilty; it gives the supposedly focussed beam an extra blinkering. I also use a headtorch on the unlit canal; I justify it by looking ever so slightly away from oncoming traffic.
Posted 10 years ago #
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