CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Stuff

Indicator lights

(53 posts)

  1. Focus
    Member

    Whilst reading one of the recent cycling articles in the Guardian I saw the advert for this: Indic8or LED Bicycle Safety Lights

    Designed by a taxi driver no less! Cumbersome for sure, but there's merit in the idea if it were miniaturised and built into the sleeve on jackets. I know LEDs on jackets aren't a new idea but indicating ones are as far as I know.

    I can't see indicators on bikes themselves taking off unless almost every single bike has them - they are simply too much of a novelty for drivers to expect to see them or know that's what they are. The same goes for the Wireless Cycle Brake Light, maybe even more so, as it would just be taken as a faulty light assuming it were noticed at all.

    I've got the Tacx Lumos lights for the road bike

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    but, as I predicted, I've only used the indicators a couple of times - just not practical enough. I bought them as running lights to use before a headlight becomes necessary and they do a good job as "be seen" lights, especially as they show the width of the bike better. I doubt they are bright enough to confuse drivers into thinking it's 2 different bikes,in the distance.

    So, brake lights, indicators? Some way off being effective.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  2. I remember reading something about some cycle indicators from a few years back after seeing them at the Cycle Show, and there was a suggestion that they were actually too close together for them to be an effective, erm, indication. Not sure of that argument however, given motorbikes have indicators.

    I could see the merit in gloves - presume you'd have to have a little switch to trigger when you indicated (not sure an accelerometer could detect the exact movement when it was needed?).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  3. panyagua
    Member

    It may be my memory playing tricks on me, but I'm sure I remember 'indicator gloves' appearing on Tomorrow's World some time in the 1970s.

    Perhaps it's an idea that was 40 years ahead of its time...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  4. Roibeard
    Member

    I tried a set from Halfords about 10 years ago.

    They had a switch on the handlebars and another mounted on the brake straddle cable to detect when the brakes were pulled on.

    The indicators were only to the rear, and weren't much use, but the brakelight seemed vaguely sensible.

    I returned them for a refund as they were more of a novelty and couldn't withstand the Edinburgh weather...

    Robert

    Posted 11 years ago #
  5. HankChief
    Member

    I've got the same as Focus - Tacx - for the same reason of showing extra width rather than for indicating.

    Never used the indicators in anger - just don't trust they would have the same impact as a outstretched arm, which is usually accompanied by a look over my shoulder, so you can check it has been noticed.

    For times when you don't want to take your hands off the handlebars, they could have some use but in those situations you are unlikely to be on your drops.

    Unless they are as bright & big as car indicators I can't see them taking off.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  6. condor2378
    Member

    IIRC there's a hack to make motion sensor indicator arm bands on at instructables.com which light up when you stick your arm out. Some soldering may be required though

    Posted 11 years ago #
  7. cc
    Member

    As a substitute I put reflective bands round my wrists when I ride after dark.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    Dunno about left/right indicators but one thing that does seem a good idea is the rear brake light which gets brighter when you slow down.

    B&M offer a couple for dynamo setups. The call them Braketec or Brake Plus. Just contains an accelerometer (like most smartphones).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  9. Smudge
    Member

    I've got a b+m brakelight type light on the Brompton, no idea if it's worthwhile or pointless though :-s
    Iirc it measures deceleration through the change in frequency of the pulses from the dynamo.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  10. Kim
    Member

    Indicators for bikes are just another solution looking for a problem, while ignoring the real problem of people not want to drive with due care and attention. Indicators for bikes, will not make driver look where they are going and stop using their phones on the move.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  11. "Indicators for bikes, will not make driver look where they are going and stop using their phones on the move."

    No, but think downwards, it's always nice to give pedestrians (who may be about to cross a side road you're turning into) notice that you're about to turn (in much the same way that we complain about drivers not indicating, cyclists should indicate for the benefit of pedestrians most especially, and anything that helps make that indication more visible...).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "but think downwards, it's always nice to give pedestrians (who may be about to cross a side road you're turning into) notice that you're about to turn"

    Oh, I thought bike indicators were on the back - and facing backwards(?)

    Of course bikes (and cars!) should give way to peds in side streets. (Most drivers - and pedestrians - don't know this!)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  13. "Oh, I thought bike indicators were on the back - and facing backwards(?)"

    I was thinking of the glove versions, but from behind works as well if you're left hooking a pedestrian, at least gives them a little warning... ;)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  14. "Of course bikes (and cars!) should give way to peds in side streets. (Most drivers - and pedestrians - don't know this!)"

    If the pedestrians have already started to cross. But yes, one of the less well known rules (and of course we know that it's only cyclists who don't know the Highway Code - which suggests that all drivers know the code perfectly, but ignore it anyway, which to my mind is worse).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  15. steveo
    Member

    I never feel comfortable giving way on the bike, the guy behind you probably isn't expecting you to stop...

    Posted 11 years ago #
  16. cb
    Member

    I find that, in general, cyclists in Edinburgh are absolutely terrible at indicating (i.e. they tend not too).

    Posted 11 years ago #
  17. allebong
    Member

    Often the times you most want to indicate are not coincidentally the times you least want to be taking a hand off the bars.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  18. Uberuce
    Member

    I don't understand why the front brake lever is on the right for UK bikes. As allebong said, you often have to *not* indicate in order to keep both hands in control, so Shirley it's better to miss it out on left turns?

    This is why both my fixed gear devices have their lever on the left, and I am now so convinced by the superiority of the arrangement that I'll convert to it next time my geared devices need recabling.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  19. twinspark
    Member

    I'm pretty sure that an EU directive states new bikes must be sold with front brake on RHS. In the US it's the opposite way round?! Certainly from doing the Bikeability at the school that was the case. I was telling my father who was a keen cyclist in his younger days and he told me his bike was set up with the front brake on LHS.

    The logic certainly makes sense for us to reverse the norm in the UK... presumably our cousins across the pond should be doing likewise?!

    Posted 11 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "I'm pretty sure that an EU directive states new bikes must be sold with front brake on RHS"

    True in UK - not sure if it's EU rule.

    Obviously opposite where they drive on left.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  21. allebong
    Member

    Sheldon Brown had a fair bit to say about brake setup. I agree with him; you should be doing the vast, vast majority of your braking using the front brake alone and so you want it to be controlled by your dominant hand (lefties excluded I suppose...). As I understand motorbikes are universally right-front as well. I've had all my bikes set up right-front for as long as I can remember - when I rode a bike in the US a few years back I could never quite get my head round it being the other way after so much time.

    For me indicating is a second priority to braking. At this time of year there's the added complication that you do want to be using your back brake when there's ice and other disagreeable surfaces about meaning both hands should ideally be on braking duty.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  22. neddie
    Member

    I find you can slow the bike nice and gently using the rear (LH) brake, while signalling right. Smooth...

    In any case, you should always apply the rear brake slightly before the front to avoid judder/shimmy (and always use the rear brake at least a little, contrary to some of the guff that Sheldon spouts)

    Posted 11 years ago #
  23. allebong
    Member

    I find you can slow the bike nice and gently using the rear (LH) brake, while signalling right. Smooth...

    This is always an option, and given the low power of the back brake you're not really in much danger as long as you do it sensibly.

    In any case, you should always apply the rear brake slightly before the front to avoid judder/shimmy (and always use the rear brake at least a little, contrary to some of the guff that Sheldon spouts)

    Emphasis mine....why 'always'? Over the summer I must have put in 1000 miles on road without ever touching the back brake. A properly set up bike shouldn't be shuddering or shimmying anyway, and if it is I'm guessing it has cantilever brakes and is in need of some tuning. I have absolutely zero problems using only the front brake on good surfaces with both decent V-brakes and hydraulic discs.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  24. wingpig
    Member

    "...on good surfaces..."

    Chance would be a fine thing. I'll stick to using both so that I don't need to suddenly de-train myself from only using the front one if I suddenly need to stop on a surface where I can't guarantee that my front wheel won't lock up.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  25. allebong
    Member

    Chance would be a fine thing.

    Chance is bombing through a pine forest on a bit of singletrack barely wider than you are, with handlebars scraping the edge of the trees, with the 'surface' being a mixture of wet rocks, roots and occasional hub-deep mulch, all coated in unimaginable slipperly filth. Where the slightest touch of the back brake instantly locks the back wheel and drags half the forest floor down the trail under the back tyre, it's knobs barely any use.

    Suddenly dealing with wet tarmac on a road bike doesn't seem so bad ;-)

    Seriously, though, in my experience far too many people out there have an irrational fear of the front brake. There's very few on-road situations in which it's going to be a problem and those that are are obvious - wet leaves, ice, loose gravel patches etc. If you're happy to lean over in a corner on 23mm of rubber there shouldn't be an issue with braking on it. More to the point, as Sheldon notes the quickest way to stop a bike is the front brake alone in most situations, so if you can't commit to it you'll be in trouble should you ever need to emergency stop.

    Edit: You've expanded on your enigmatic statement since I was typing....I can see where you're coming from, and I certainly check my back brake is always working, but the danger with using it all the time is you are braking sub-optimally in most conditions. It's not a problem until, say, you begin braking with both and then have to emergency stop, in which case you need to manage both wheels, and brace, and deal with the fact that when you're front is at max the back is going to lock. In other words you've de-trained yourself from using the front brake in an attempt to avoid de-training yourself from using the back.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  26. Instography
    Member

    I find the stopping better with two brakes.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  27. allebong
    Member

    I find the stopping better with two brakes.

    I'm really interested to know what you mean by better. I'm going to make a couple of reasonable statements/assumptions here:

    -Both brakes are properly set up so you're not using one because the other isn't working right.

    -You're on a good surface, which to me is any sort of paved road or path, obviously excluding stuff like wet leaves etc. In other words a surface you wouldn't approach thinking 'this will be slippy'.

    -Your tyres are fine, no other glaring faults with the bike

    In this case, which is around 95%+ of onroad conditions over the year for me at least, you cannot stop quicker using both brakes compared to only the front. If you can pull the back brake and not lock the wheel then the front brake can be applied harder still without the back lifting. There's no point in trying to balance the back wheel on the edge of skidding when you can just use the front alone.

    I suspect what you mean by 'better' is you feel the weight shift is less severe when using the back as well (which it is) and it feels like you have more control. The danger here is again that however you feel about using both brakes it's not the fastest way to stop in pretty much any situation - if you're going fast on a bad surface and need to stop suddenly, you're pretty screwed no matter what you try in my experience.....

    I would encourage people to go up to say 20mph on a nice smooth bit of (empty!) road and practice with only your front brake. Once you get used to it you can use that brake hard without anything dramatic happening except you stopping incredibly fast. When the day comes when you do need to emergency stop in that situation you can do it by reflex.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  28. Instography
    Member

    I never need to stop quickly. I make a point of it. I'm not interested in stopping quickly.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  29. allebong
    Member

    I never need to stop quickly. I make a point of it. I'm not interested in stopping quickly.

    I'm going to be getting some driving lessons in a couple of weeks. Do you think I could use this line of reasoning to avoid learning anything about how to emergency stop a car? I mean there's no harm to be done in not knowing anything about the fastest way to stop your vehicle is there?

    You're absolutely right, I don't want to have to stop quickly, I can't remember the last time I had to stop quickly, but I'm incredibly glad I know exactly how to do it.

    If you or anyone else doesn't want to learn about braking technique, well....I have my opinions on that, but I won't force them on you. I just really, honestly hope you don't ever find yourself needing them.

    Posted 11 years ago #
  30. Uberuce
    Member

    I can tuppence in with my recent experience of not being sure about the setup on my dynodrum front brake. I've been doing exactly what allebong suggests in the process of testing and fettling it.

    I think he's onto something.

    Oh, and physics agrees.

    @Instography: I consider it a fixie defeat when I ever have to use my front brake, so my commute is similarly devoid of need to stop quickly, exceeeeeept for that one time recently when I misjudged Stuff when doing This Thing and had to haul anchor.

    I'm not going to do This Thing again, but I would prefer if the anchors were handy.

    Posted 11 years ago #

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