"It comes following a spate of falls at Haymarket – caused by cyclists getting their wheels railroaded in tram lines"
Ah, cyclists are causing the falls. Glad that's been cleared up for the EEN readership then.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
When were these painted at the Mound?
(62 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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Hi all,
I think we should be a little more welcoming to Dale. Perhaps if he reads more of this forum, he'll get a better understanding of the issues cyclists face. "Know your enemy" and all that. Maybe he could even try going out on a bike (if he doesn't already).
@jordanmiller
Welcome to the forum!
Posted 11 years ago # -
I regularly drop into the forum to read the views of cyclists, but thought it was past time I became an active member.
Certainly not saying falls at Haymarket are cyclists' fault - some real design issues there that have still not been fixed
Posted 11 years ago # -
"Back again - taking a step backward on the Streetview and revealed the segregated-shared used sign.
I took a forward step onto Gorgie Road and couldn't see any signs facing the other direction to alert pedestrians that they were now on a shared use path.
So rant justified IMHO."Also, the sign on Ardmillan is completely inadequate and doesn't really match up with what's on the ground.
Posted 11 years ago # -
'It comes following a spate of falls at Haymarket – caused by cyclists'
Not like een has never used selective quoting.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@ Instography
"I'm sure Focus isn't serious because there's nothing in world, not even rights of way, that positively encourage anyone to plow (if you insist on the Americanism - we spell it plough) through anyone. "
You're absolutely right I wasn't serious, other than implying how the EEN comments mob will interpret it (and also why I spelt it that way as I've seen that spelling several times there!).
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hi Dale,
Welcome to the forum, i have a question which immediately arrived on reading your most recent post.
"I regularly drop into the forum to read the views of cyclists".
Can i ask you the pertinent question please?
When you drop in to read the views of cyclists, can you please explain to me (and the rest of the forum)as to how we end up getting such negatively weighted or blatantly misquoted and i use this term very loosely "stories" in the EEN/Scotsman on a regular basis??
Especially given that there is an enormous amount of real evidence here that regularly contradicts what the EEN prints....
I dont understand the disconnection between facts and a story.
Regards
RJPosted 11 years ago # -
"Also, the sign on Ardmillan is completely inadequate and doesn't really match up with what's on the ground."
exactly. and now we have 4 different potential signs in use on shared use segments: white bike on pave; blue rondel set in pavement**; blue rondel on signpost; blue rondel on bollard*
**proposed for innocent-meadows route
*entrance to NMW on east side.Posted 11 years ago # -
This comment sums it up....
""down the steep hill at more than 25mph"
They don't need to come down this fast, it is a choice and should cycle according to the conditions. In other areas roads sometimes cut through parks. In these areas cars are restricted to 10mph or slower. If the bikes have to share this area then pedestrians should have right of way and bikes should be set a strict limit of 10mph or less. Simples"Like the 20mph limit through Holyrood Park that, obviously, every driver sticks to religiously (in this sense I mean religiously as in, there's some guidance there, go and interpret it how you want).
Intrigued as to which parks in the city have roads through them that have limits of 10mph and lower. Anyone?
(should add that I'd advocate, obviously, cyclists slowing down there, but I seriously doubt anyone is going to hit 25mph on that short stretch)
Posted 11 years ago # -
Posted 11 years ago #
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I've lived just down the road from that Gorgie example for 9 years and I never realised it was there to allow cyclists to turn left there...
Posted 11 years ago # -
The commenter also assumes that all bike come fitted with a speedo as standard so cyclists would KNOW when they were doing 10mph, plus we'd all lose the ability to cycle properly and have more incidents if we slow down (if you believe today's blinder from Alternative Fuel Head on the EEN):
"This constant encouragement of people to drive slowly leads to two main things---firstly, they think that provided they are obeying the speed limit, they are safe, which is wrong. Secondly their driving ability degrades simply because they are not using their skills and this in turn makes them more likely to get into a situation like this and less likely to be able to deal with it when it happens."
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hi RonnieJ, believe it or not we are always very keen to promote cycling issues and to press for improved infrastructure for bike riders. That was one of the reasons why we highlighted the situation at Haymarket - in a bid to convince city officials to sort out the arrangements there. I doubt any other news outlet would have tackled that issue.
I would argue we are more pro cycling - and run more cycling stories - than any other media outlet on this patch.
Posted 11 years ago # -
dale - am sure you believe this, but contrast between EEN coverage with London Evening News coverage is stark. different tone, emphasis etc. (signed, Susan Dorman aka Sara Borman...)
Posted 11 years ago # -
@ threefromleith
Alternative (Redundant) Borefest on the EEN won't be satisfied until he is allowed to drive his jet-powered Nissan Micra at over 100 miles per hour with no traffic lights, police or annoying pedestrians, cyclists or indeed other vehicles to force him to slow down or take care.
However long it takes cyclists to get what they want, I think we'll always be closer to our desires than he'll ever be to his, thank goodness.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@ Dale, sorry but that sounds like a total soundbyte to me. And you did not directly address the question as i asked it. Straight talking answer please, its the only one i choose to accept.
here it is again for you:
"can you please explain to me (and the rest of the forum)as to how we end up getting such negatively weighted or blatantly misquoted and i use this term very loosely "stories" in the EEN/Scotsman on a regular basis??"
You didnt try to explain, even though you were asked nicely.
Regards
RJPosted 11 years ago # -
"as to how we end up getting such negatively weighted or blatantly misquoted and i use this term very loosely "stories" in the EEN/Scotsman on a regular basis"
"Straight talking answer please, its the only one i choose to accept"
Not so much 'nicely' as a little snippy and patronising.
I guess we can't expect any positive stories in the near future.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Call me a teeny bit cynical Dale, but EEN stories about cycling seem deliberately spun to induce as much frothing as possible from the regular cyclist-bashers and thus act as click-bait to drive up page-hits and ad revenue... ;-)
Posted 11 years ago # -
RonnieJ, I do not believe we negatively weight all of our stories against cyclists. Those quoted are quoted accurately, at least in the stories I write. The judgement on whether it is a story or not is made by our senior news team. Simply put, they are keen to have cycling issues in the EEN.
Any news story from any paper will have a top line as a way into the issue - it must be news-driven and it must engage the reader, even the casual one who is not as passionate on issues such as cycling. I've noted comments on the use of language in stories - this is a style choice made by EEN and for some may not be to their taste, which I understand.
I've got some writing to do, but happy to continue the discussion anytime - my email: dale.miller@jpress.co.uk
Posted 11 years ago # -
now that's a decent reply.
Hope you'll come have coffee with us one friday morning?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Posted 11 years ago #
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Dale - thanks for sticking your head above the parapet and posting on here. As you probably know, lots of CCE posters (myself included) have strong feelings about the way the EEN sometimes reports on cycling matters. Yes, some stories and editorials have been very positive and I genuinely welcome that. However, many stories are written with a view to emphasisng conflict between motorists, cyclists and pedestrians.
My concern is that this helps create the impression of perpetual conflict between people who are simply trying to go about their business. Not an issue for most people, but there are a few idiots who take this stuff to heart and that concerns me. An irate cyclist is probably more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. An irate motorist is a real danger to cyclists and pedestrians.
I know you and your colleagues have papers to sell, in a terrible market for newspapers, and that things at Johnston Press are really bad, but please think about how EEN reporting on cycling issues might affect us on the roads.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Well done Dale, I hope that the posts that you read here will help yourself and your EEN colleagues understand the position of many cyclists in Edinburgh and why they feel as they do.
I think that this can only be a good thing.
Posted 11 years ago # -
The fundamental problem here is that the council just doesn't have a fully thought out plan of how to make Edinburgh a continental style city, where active travel is a normal way to travel in the city. Before anyone suggest that that is what the so called "Active Travel Action Plan" is about, might I suggest that you take a visit to the mainland of Europe and have a look at what they do there.
Edinburgh's ATAP is about a series of leisure routes, there are no plans to reduce speed of volume of motor traffic in to the city. No plan to encourage a modal shift, no though about about the capacity needed for these active travel routes, if the +10% modal share for cycling was to be achieved. The ATAP is not fit for purpose and does not follow international best practice.
This is why we just get a hotchpotch of ad hoc rubbish and are expected to be grateful for it. There are cities across Europe which have taken the join up approach and seen the cycling modal share go from >1% to <10% in five years or so. Why can't Edinburgh learn from these?
Edinburgh has the potential to be a truly world class city, but just won't bite the bullet and constrain the motor vehicle.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Picking up on Kim's point about visiting Mainland Europe it does always strike me as strange that where there is a "formula" that plainly works, other places don't just copy it. It's like they've got a circular (!) wheel whilst we're messing about with different shapes and wondering why the ride isn't smooth!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Cycling experiment E News Report + Video
Pedestrians didn't expect to see bikes on pavement from what I could see. Very courteous riding at walking pace. As mentioned on 'spotted'.
Posted 11 years ago # -
"
Keith Irving (@keithirving1)
25/11/2013 09:28
Good quotes from @POPScotland & @SustransScot : shared use pavements inappropriate in #edinburgh city centre http://fb.me/ODdKsn26"
Posted 11 years ago # -
"... it does always strike me as strange that where there is a "formula" that plainly works, other places don't just copy it"
This is what a lot of cycle campaigners have been saying, and allegedly was the purpose of study trips to the Netherlands and the like. Mikael Colville-Anderson said as much when he was talking in Edinburgh, basically 'learn from our mistakes'. It's easy to think Copenhagen had always been a cycling haven, but it took a lot of work over a lot of years - they've done the groundwork, why not take that on board?
And it comes down to political will. To copy what they've done in other places in Europe wouldn't just require that they put in better bicycling infrastructure, it would require changing things for motorised traffic, and they just don't want to do that, therefore they try to fit the cycling infrastructure in around everything else, and that leads to a shared use path that neither cyclists nor pedestrians particularly benefit from, even on a street on which private cars are not permitted...
Posted 11 years ago # -
"wouldn't just require that they put in better bicycling infrastructure, it would require changing things for motorised traffic, and they just don't want to do that, "
Quite!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Well, maybe the mistakes have to be made to move public opinion into supporting the current Copenhagen style infrastructure and there isnt a reasonable short cut in a democracy with ever tightening local authority budgets. Personally I'd rather all of the money spent on stupid paint and road designs that encourage undertaking was spent on assertiveness training and police enforcement, but since I'm not the benevolent dictator, I'll take what can be delivered.
Posted 11 years ago #
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