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not resolvedWhen I approach a queue of vehicular traffic behind an advanced stop box with intention to turn left and there is sufficient space to the left of the traffic to access the ASB should I still overtake the stationary traffic on the right? What then if the lights change to green and the vehicular traffic begins to move forward?
If my intention is to turn right, what then of a vehicle also turning right when our paths intersect?
If in doubt, stay put. If turning left its usually ok to ride up the inside but with care.
"If in doubt, stay put."
Brilliant advice.
I've approached ASL's from the left, the right and through the middle as I've felt confident it was right/best and safe to do so at the time. Any doubt whatsoever and I've always stayed put.
ASLs are dangerous - they encourage you to cycle to the left of traffic which intends to turn left, for instance. To say nothing of what on earth you're meant to do if you want to turn right.
My own view these days is that if I find myself at an ASL junction then I've probably chosen a bad route. Far better to take a quiet road than to have to deal with an incompetent driver in a hurry at a dangerous junction.
@cc I couldn't cycle like that. For one, I actually prefer signalised junctions in many cases, as there are fewer ambiguities about priority. Second, ASLs, if adhered to, also give you space. So, for example, if I head down gillsland towards Harrison road, thee is an ASL. Next street over towards Ashleigh terrace, there isn't one. I always notice this, especially if I've got kids on. The cars, even friendly ones, come right up next to you. So if I'm turning left, there a car right up net to me going straight. Not a comfortable position. At the intersection with the ASL you usually get more space when doing exact same maneuver. Not perfect, but a slight improvement.
I am always pleased when there is an ASL as it can often speed up my journey. However agree totally with the safety element in that if it doubt stay in the traffic. On my commute there are quite a few and I know exactly when I can get to the front and when I can't.
"Not perfect, but a slight improvement."
Agree.
If there's a big queue at a set of traffic lights, and I know there's an ASL at the front of it but the lights are either green, or might turn green while I attempt to get to the ASL, I'll just take primary and wait in the queue. If the lights then go green and then go red and I'm still not at the ASL, at that point I will sometimes head up to the ASL, as at that point I know I will have time to get there before they turn red again. But sometimes I don't.
I used to think of an ASL as something I should always aim to get to as I had a right to be there, but discussions on here led me to change my thinking about that, hence the above is now what I do.
While I appreciate and empathise with the opinion of cc above, I don't agree 100% with it. That said, some ALSs are dangerous; I came across one yesterday which I'd not seen before which had no obvious way to get to it (no leading lane on the left, for example), so is one I would never go into unless I happened to be first in the queue.
If there's a big queue at a set of traffic lights, and I know there's an ASL at the front of it but the lights are either green, or might turn green while I attempt to get to the ASL, I'll just take primary and wait in the queue. If the lights then go green and then go red and I'm still not at the ASL, at that point I will sometimes head up to the ASL, as at that point I know I will have time to get there before they turn red again.
This is exactly how I approach ASLs, but it's completely dependent on you having prior knowledge of the road on which you're cycling. If I don't know the junction I hang back in the queue.
+1 for agree.
ASLs themselves are not dangerous in themselves, poor usage by motorists and/or cyclists can be. Poor implementation of ASLs (placement, access routes) can make them less appealing, admittedly.
And, if we are to share the same road space with other traffic, they should be combined with priority green lights for cyclists.
You'll never stop motorists trying to anticipate light changes but I would suggest a system similar to Formula 1*.
1)There should be a countdown signal to show cyclists how long they have till the cyclists green light phase begins to let them know how long they have to filter to the front.
2)Once the green phase light for cyclists has begun, there will be an * unsignalled countdown before the motorists' green light phase begins. The delay will vary ( between 5 and 8 seconds for example), the idea being to make it harder to anticipate the change.
3) Green for motorists (i.e. all traffic).
Strict fines for jumping the all traffic phase required of course.
Another thing I'd like to be instilled in drivers is that, regardless of what your blind spots may be, you are expected to stop such that you can see in front of you the white line you are supposed to be behind. No more of this wheels are behind the line but the bonnet etc over it, and certainly not the nonsense of the driver's torso being behind the line whilst everything in front is over the line. If motorists adhered to that the entire ASL would be visible and therefore safer for cyclists to use.
In the case of ASL junctions, this would of course leave a space between the front of motorised traffic and the ASL, so for the safety of cyclists it would be necessary to require riders to use the ASL properly or just stay in the queue of traffic (if they so desire). With one fell swoop you eliminate the forward blind spot of any vehicle being an issue, and the side blind spot problem would be reduced with the use of the countdown timer.
It's not a magic solution because as ever it requires everyone to obey the rules and we know that never happens 100%.
I don't agree ASL's are dangerous.
They can lead to over confidence in a cyclist of their safety I suppose, but it is the misuse/abuse of them by motorists, or their poor design position (some are hopelessly inadequate in terms of depth or position) that can make being in or getting to one dangerous. Generally,I find them helpful.
Another thing I'd like to be instilled in drivers is that you are expected to stop such that you can see in front of you the white line you are supposed to be behind.
I was taught this when I learned to drive. It was called "tar and tyres". The whole learning-to-drive thing is all about being safe, but after passing your test it becomes all about your own journey being more important than anyone else's. :-(
Yup ...advanced driving test insists on being able to see 'tyres / tarmac' in front of you when you stop, whether behind a line or another car.
A shame that virtually no driver on the roads actually drives by that mantra (even most of the ones who are actually behind the ASL).
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