CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

White Paper (THE #indyref thread)

(2915 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by Morningsider
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • This topic is closed

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    Derek Bateman is not a source of fact

    Well, no media is entirely factual nor 'impartial/objective'. BBC purports to be both, but the reality is rather different. Editorial or individual reporters' bias clouds many articles and programmes. There is supposed to be 'balance' in political reporting, but there are many ways to do this and not all of them work.

    Take all media with a large bucket of salt thrown over shoulder for luck, including this forum: an unrepresentative membership of Edinburgh/central belt cyclists and (allegedly according to comments elsewhere on the internut) a haven for oddballs and weirdoes.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. gembo
    Member

    Yes I want that commenter on Sally Hinch's article to elucidate further so that I can establish whether I am a fruitcake or an oddball. good that there is someone who can make these judgement calls and still have time to post comments on the Internet.

    Agreed bias in media, being former devotee of the Glasgow uni media group and particularly Greg Philo taking Mary Marquess to task.

    Presenting a website as a source of impartial info is of course just a bit of fun.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. wee folding bike
    Member

    I was not 100 m from the Piv lost children office this afternoon.

    I was the guy riding a Brompton along the esplanade and picking up some rays for a tan on the noggin as it is far too white. One boy on a bike, two boys on scooters. I didn't get a pokey hat.

    I see they have built two flyovers across the A77 between Kilmarnock and Monkton. One at the B730 junction and one at the special needs village.

    Complaining about Derek Bateman doesn't deal with No being a British Nationalist option and not Internationalist.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    And I was under the impression it was UKIP who are odd balls or fruit cakes.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    Big changes to layout on A77 from symington to monkton, several of the wee farm roads maybe deemed too dangerous, they always look nice to cycle. Now building flyovers after 40 years??

    I hear very sunny in Ayr all day and warm.

    I am not complaining about Derek, I loved his work on mr and mrs and he is free to write what he likes.

    Elements of a no vote clearly british national, but then that becomes an international union if there was independence? i am distinctly un comfy with any nationalism And see the same historically with Scottish nationalism. See link upstream to prof David cannadine, also liked his work as Kung Fu.

    Nation states it would seem are a relatively recent invention

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    Do you have the same issues with Ireland, Canada, Australia or India running their own affairs rather than having Westminster do it?

    If we replace the word nationalist with self determinationist would that help?

    Ayr was sunny but too windy to be warm. Boys didn't care and jumped around the play park. I was remembering afternoons spent there with Fat Shaz 30 years ago.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. gembo
    Member

    Yes that is right , Hindu nationalism in India very serious, can be fatal. Racism in Australia long history, québécois, and both jolly insularity of Dublin on radio six and quite right wing elements in fianna fail and Fianna Gael, so I think it is the word nationalism (British or Scottish) that I am uneasy with.

    Sharon was petite so I think the pavilion 30 years back was someone else?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. Instography
    Member

    A wee while back gembo said, "My roots are in international socialism ...".

    You might like this.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. crowriver
    Member

    @insto, I quite enjoyed the coinage of “Little Britain” for rUK, also "anti-reforms". I found myself agreeing with much of the article. I can also see why many left radicals are for independence, including the SSP.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. Instography
    Member

    Yeah, I enjoyed it. You might like an earlier one that talks about the left radicals and support for independence.

    http://www.isj.org.uk/?id=302

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. crowriver
    Member

    @insto. Certainly interesting and pertinent. Possibly overtaken by events?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    First article went on a bit, and stretched data along the usual grooves. Very much liked the footnote from V. I. am The Walrus Lenin if the people vote no, that is still self determination.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. PS
    Member

    Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov!

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. Instography
    Member

    "Possibly overtaken by events?"

    Oh, yes, of course. I just liked their distinction between leftie radicals trying to create a movement where none existed because they actually believe and that they can create an independent socialist republic and the SWP's position that they should support independence in spite of believing that it will make no difference partly because it hastens the dismantling of the British state (which I suppose they see as the immediate and greater enemy) and just so that people who believe in it can be disabused of the idea that independence is necessarily progressive. I guess if the whole organisation weren't an embarrassing mess, they'd be in there making a mischief of themselves rather than sitting schtum like Colin Fox not rocking the boat in case it loses the prize.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. Roibeard
    Member

    Saw the bicycle-filled SNP European Elections Party Political Broadcast last night. It was all about the Referendum, and didn't cover the Euro elections at all.

    Can a political party use their broadcasting slot for anything they like, or did someone pull a fast one?

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Bicycle filled? I have not the telebhisean so haven't seen it.

    Can confirm that a very fast one has been pulled. Naughty Nats. Better Together will have kittens.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    Can a political party use their broadcasting slot for anything they like,

    There's a wee thing called freedom of expression?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  18. Roibeard
    Member

    They've got it on their YouTube channel, but iPlayer doesn't have it for some reason.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSnp

    (Other YouTube channels are available, views do not necessarily reflect those of the Management, etc.)

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  19. Min
    Member

    We saw that too! I thought it pretty disgusting that the SNP were using cycling to get votes when they do worse than nothing for cycling.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  20. crowriver
    Member

    worse than nothing

    Well, I'm not sure we can quite claim that. Disappointing, yes. Not good enough, certainly. Worse than nothing is a little hyperbolic.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  21. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    It's a topsy-turvy world;

    http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/?s=cycling

    not a word on cycling from the Greens...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  22. crowriver
    Member

    IWRATS - looks like the search engine on the site is not functioning as it should.

    Under 'Energy' policy:

    "STOP TRYING TO BUILD OUR WAY OUT OF CONGESTION

    Every party which has run government in Scotland to date has failed to break the addiction to road-building, even when it’s clear that it just makes the problem worse. Moving to electric vehicles will help reduce emissions directly, but unless we get a grip on traffic levels the energy demand will be astronomical. We need to plan where homes and businesses are built and where public services are delivered, to reduce people’s need to drive ever further. Walking, cycling and public transport must be given far higher priority by Government, especially when it comes to public spending. "

    - See more at: http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/policy/energy/

    Posted 9 years ago #

  23. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @ crowriver - I figured that. I met Green candidate #2 through a bicycle-related thing.

    But how to vote? SNP in order to frighten and demoralise Better Together? Green to demonstrate the plurality of Yes Scotland? SSP to give Nigel someone to talk to in Strasbourg?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  24. Min
    Member

    Well, I'm not sure we can quite claim that. Disappointing, yes. Not good enough, certainly. Worse than nothing is a little hyperbolic.

    Hyperbole* is my middle name.

    *actually it's Jane

    Posted 9 years ago #

  25. Morningsider
    Member

    Roibeard - parties have (almost) complete control over the content of Party Political and Referendum Broadcasts:

    See: http://www.broadcastersliaisongroup.org.uk/referendum.html

    These are for the Referendum broadcasts, but are effectively the same as the party political broadcast guidelines.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  26. chdot
    Admin

    "actually it's Jane"

    Learn something everyday!

    Min Jane

    Has a certain ring

    Posted 9 years ago #

  27. crowriver
    Member

    IWRATS, instead of the tactical calculations, how about voting for the candidate/party you prefer or agree with? Old fashioned, I know...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  28. chdot
    Admin

    "instead of the tactical calculations"

    Isn't it multiple choice voting - PR?

    Posted 9 years ago #

  29. wee folding bike
    Member

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/scotland-vote-yes-set-english-free-independence-devolution

    Billy Bragg's $0.02.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Tactical calculations are, alas, necessary;

    Who is elected?

    In a given region the allocated seats are awarded using a quota system. The quota is the total number of votes received by a party or independent candidate divided by the number of seats already gained in that region +1.

    So, for a party with no seats the number of votes received is divided by one, and so stays the same. If the party already has one seat then its number of votes is divided by two, if it has two seats it is divided by three, and so on.

    This means that the more seats you have already won, the harder it is to gain extra seats, so the overall allocation of seats is more proportional to the number of votes received.

    The first seat that a party wins goes to the first person on its list, the second seat to the second person, and so on, until the party has either not won any more seats or has run out of names on its list. An independent candidate is treated as though he or she were a party with only one name on its list.

    Just looked at the list of Scottish MEPs - don't recognise a single one of the names. Candidates for the unionist parties are out, for tactical reasons. Will scrutinise the three remaining manifesti.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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