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White Paper (THE #indyref thread)

(2915 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by Morningsider
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • This topic is closed

  1. gembo
    Member

    More honest of the Sunday herald to say that it is supporting Yes. Previously pretending to be impartial. Clearly, saying you are supporting yes and saying you will still be impartial contains a contradiction. You cannot be impartial if you support one side.

    Alasdair Gray, what a boy. As I have bored on tis before, I will again. When I was barman in The Doublet, used to serve Jim Kelman first. Decent guy, also able to hold his liquor. He would sometimes get Alasdair and the mighty Tom Leonard to drink with him. The latter two were not able to hold their drink, nor were they quiet drunks.

    My better half good friends from uni with freelance journo who was sent from the Smoke to interview Alasdair by Torygraph. She, the journo, quite pukka so she was worried. I said take him a nice bottle of wine and he will be as putty in your hands. Indeed, it turned out well, tho when al's wife caught him imbibing it turned a bit dicey. I also gave the journo a little pamphlet by the saltire society on old Al. Most of that appeared in the article. Talented man but seems stuck somewhere in 1979 looking for the way back to the bar?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    You cannot be impartial if you support one side.

    They did not say impartial, they said balanced. Other editors in Herald group free to choose their own positions. Sunday Herald alone has come out for Yes.

    Only the BBC claims to be impartial. Does anyone blieve that? No such thing as impartial anyway - an idealist, rationalist construct which bears no relation to political reality. Everyone is partial, just some pretend not to be in public.

    Will other media come out for No or are they going to keep pretending to be neutral?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    They will be too feart to come out for No as will be intimidated by the Sunday herald. :-)

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. wee folding bike
    Member

    A friend from Prestwick is working in a kilt shop and was asked for a doublet yesterday. Apparently they do stock them. I sent her a photo of the pub.

    I occasionally cycle round Airdrie wearing a saltire Buff and the Order have not had words yet. i'm easy to spot anyway.

    Up to my oxsters in SQA marking for the couple of weeks. I do know a lot more about the Nat 5 assignments than I did last week.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. gembo
    Member

    You could see the red lit pub sign from up woodlands road. I always thought STV could have set late call there with Tom Leonard reciting.

    My poor wee ma will have to cancel her subscription to Sunday herald now. Her paper of choice. Can't be having partial papers.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  6. wee folding bike
    Member

    They're all partial now there's just one in a different direction. It's only one day a week. Magnus is back Mon-Sat. It could be a clever strategy from the Herald.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. minus six
    Member

    Alasdair Gray, what a boy

    I had a drink with Alasdair once round at the late Archie Hind's house in Pollockshields.

    What a pair. They belted out WWI army songs all night...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    My poor wee ma will have to cancel her subscription to Sunday herald now.

    How so? Surely not because of 'intimidation' from yourself?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. chdot
    Admin

    "
    The Post Collective was set up in 2013 as an alternative voice in Scottish politics and publishing. Its aim is to provide a voice of Scotland's younger generation on issues of environment, technology, politics and the internet not covered by the mainstream press. In the run up to the 2014 independence referendum we want to publish a book outlining new visions of sustainability, democracy, architecture and long-term thinking that goes beyond politics and beyond constitution. What would an ideal Scotland look like, and could it become a model of progress for others to follow?

    "

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/build-your-own-scotland-new-ideas-for-an-old-country#description

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. gembo
    Member

    No crowriver, my wee ma is of a generation where the SNP are just tartan Tories. She hasn't kept up with the beat baggy. Thus when Sunday herald was pretending to be impartial she was still buying it but now it is openly partial she will stop buying it.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "she will stop buying it"

    Maybe she will surprise you...

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. crowriver
    Member

    a generation where the SNP are just tartan Tories

    Aye but they never said 'Vote SNP', did they? There's not liking the SNP (which I can agree with) and then there's just being stubborn. ;-)

    when Sunday herald was pretending to be impartial

    Were they? I thought we had already discussed balance vs. 'impartial'.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    As I understand what was discussed the Sunday herald have come out as partial to the YES campaign. They are apparently still going to be balanced but partial. (This is a contradiction).

    The other papers are still pretending to be impartial. Like the Sunday herald was pretending to be impartial.

    My wee ma equates a Yes vote with the SNP, whom she sees as tartan Tories. This is just the way she is. I will phone her later to see how she is getting on. She has smashed a big bottle that my dad started putting money in and I assume she must have continued after he died. She is off to blow the lot in Perth.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. gembo
    Member

    My mum says she stopped buying the Sunday herald ages ago at a time when it went really SNP which is nice.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "
    I have come away from Scotland deeply impressed by the high quality of debate, and the relatively low quality of many of the arguments put forward by the No campaign. I’m equally impressed by the range and quality of people who constantly surprised me by their commitment – often recently determined, to vote yes. My sense too is that where the vote on Scottish independence is concerned, Westminster politicians just don’t get it.

    "

    http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/visceral-hatred-westminister-politics/23805

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    What's he doing coming up here from London telling us what to think? Oh wait does tht only work for better together politicians if you are a Yes supporter?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. wee folding bike
    Member

    I think he told us what he thought, not what we should.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. gembo
    Member

    What is he doing coming up here telling us what he thougt?

    I am suggesting that if ed miliband tries a visit he gets told he should be ashamed of himself but if Jon fancy socks off the news visits as he is on the ayes side that is alright

    Just saying

    I'm just happy I survived the clydeside expressway

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    What is he doing coming up here telling us what he thougt?

    Hasn't stopped the Torygraph, Snail, Grauniad et al pitching in with their Bitter Together propaganda. Their reporters probably didn't even bother to visit Scotland, happy to pontificate from Londinium, cradle of global tax avoidance schemes and premium property investors.

    Billy Bragg told us what he wanted, Jon Snow more analytical than prescriptive.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. calmac
    Member

    What's he doing coming up here from London telling us what to think?

    That's a description of the article you wish he'd written rather than the one he actually did.

    And besides, only nutjobs say that non-Scottish media shouldn't even come here and write about the camapign. I'd love to see some examples of that. But there's nothing wrong with saying that most of those who have written from outside Scotland so thus far are eejits though.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. Instography
    Member

    Indeed. Almost everything the Telegraph writes is mince. The FT is, of course, spot on. Wings seems a bit unhinged. A fair mix.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  22. gembo
    Member

    Eh? I am happy for him to come and give his views. , my point is that cybernats go cybernuts if ed miliband makes his view known but it is alright for snowy because they agree with him?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. calmac
    Member

    Jon Snow is a TV journalist. Ed Milliband is leader of the Labour Party. It's quite different.

    Ed's telling us how to vote. Jon is most clearly not.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. wee folding bike
    Member

    I don't mind Messrs Cameron, Milliband and Clegg having a day trip to Scotland. Don't mind it one bit.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    @calmac, just to try to be clear, I am saying that the Objections to the politicians visits have an element of coming up here for a visit, think you can lord it over us? But it is ok for snow to visit (he did stay a week) because he is agreeing with the ayes.

    Similarly Bowie view bad, Bragg view good?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. minus six
    Member

    Has Bragg changed his mind? I haven't been keeping up.

    Back in the day he was always saying please don't go, we need you to save us from the Tories

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. gembo
    Member

    I think Bragg wants us to go now?

    I know a lot of people down south who are just bored and think yeah, at least that will be a
    Bit of entertainment.

    Some have even invoked dialectical materialism but Bored Not Bored is
    Bourgeois Hegelian dialectics, how many times do I need to point this out big man by the way.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    Gonnae naw dae that! Big man. Gonnae naw.

    Oh aye, dinnae forget: it's "y'knooow" oot west, not "y'ken."

    Posted 10 years ago #
  29. Instography
    Member

    Not sure who it was set both Billy Bragg and Owen Jones straight on the point that if the English left wanted to be saved from the Tories they should organise it themselves. Fair play to them. They took the point, admitted their error and revised their opinions. I wish more people would have the sense to do that.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  30. Charterhall
    Member

    The effect of the Moody's credit assessment will be the same regardless of whether you like them and regardless of whether you like the media outlet that reports it. In this piece Peter Jones reckons the effect will be to "add between £840 million and £1.9 billion to Scotland’s annual cost of debt."
    A price worth paying to be rid of the English ?
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/peter-jones-yes-camp-comparisons-don-t-add-up-1-3399491

    Posted 10 years ago #

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