@Pintail
Did you notice that you're quoting Nigel Farage with approval? That really is a desperate state to be in. Take care.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
White Paper (THE #indyref thread)
(2915 posts)- Started 11 years ago by Morningsider
- Latest reply from chdot
- This topic is
closed
-
Posted 10 years ago #
-
"
Farage told reporters he planned a revolution in Scottish politics.
"
Posted 10 years ago # -
Imagine if people in England were saying if that lunatic Farage gets in I am moving to Scotland. Now he thinks he is gaining ground here. I don't think so.
Both yes and no seemed tired at the market today, been a long haul. Nice woman (.only non Nat in the yes group in Balerno) gave me a wee blue sweet which has stained my Tongue. Labour guy on the no stall can do irony (I asked him for a yes bag to put my gala programme in). He was also saying the Tory candidate in the euro election was very good at hustings in oxgangs. I find that not to be possible but some might differ.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"been a long haul"
Only just beginning!!
If the activists are tiring, what of the populous?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Careful Insto. Saying someone is pro Farage feels a bit like a personal insult. I had avoided commenting on it because I couldn't think of a polite way to do so.
Two packets of SQA marking left. A big stack went back to Edinburgh this morning. Didn't need the trailer. I only have about 90 this year. Chocolate and caffeine consumption will go back to normal when I'm finished.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Ivan White (@ivanwhite48)
08/05/2014 17:15
First question on #bbcqt tonight SHOULD be: "Why has Farage been invited on to the panel 27 times when his party has no MPs at Westminster?""
Didn't realise it was that many!...
Posted 10 years ago # -
My concern is for the sovereignty of the UK, I'm happy to accept Europe as a means of trade, the Common Market as it was when we joined, but it has now morphed into an entirely different political empire. The Roman legions failed to conquer much of Scotland but where they failed the Brussels bureaucrats are succeeding. I'm with Farage 100% on this one.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Nice question from Ivan white. He is supposed to give good telly. He was rubbish on HIGNFY. He is a loony and he is supposed to be the acceptable face of UKIP. Imagine voting for a bunch of racist, homophobic, little englanders that make the Tories look good?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Careful, whenever the Scots talk about the English in derogatory terms that's racism in my book.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Ok, I would always avoid being racist, I will ask my wife who is English what she thinks .......
She says loony not strong enough
Posted 10 years ago # -
I find it baffling that people don't see that we benefit far more from being in Europe than outside it.
Sovereignty - whatever we mean by it - has little to do with it.
Sovereignty has changed dramatically in the past 50 years. It never was what it claimed to be, but state power has been profoundly transformed - both extended beyond what could have been imagined and limited in other ways. Nothing to do with Europe per se - global transformations as much to do with technology as international law.
Leaving Europe would change almost none of this. we would still be part of so many multi-level and multi-lateral institutions, and have so many trade and political links to Europe that we would see little change to our sovereignty.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Just as importantly, we have strong cultural links with Europe. Same people, same roots of culture and behaviours (celts, Angles, Saxons, Norse, Normans; how much of Victorian education, and by extension that society's concept of Britishness, stems from classical learning?), just different languages and (perhaps most importantly) climates.
We're European in these islands. The Channel and the North Sea don't change that.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Gembo, I believe the options for UKIP are fruitcakes, loonies and/or closet racists. I'm not so sure about the closet bit.
I have an auntie who will vote for them, she's also implacably No and that did provide some fun at the new year. That, and my uncle not recognising me for a couple of hours on account of my new doo.
Just finished listening to the Johnny Seven's only CD.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Ah, the Johnny Seven... Happy memories of them and Going Places.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think when our economy can be brought to its knees by the stupidity and greed of a tiny number of people in the financial sector who consider themselves to be masters of the universe then fretting about Europe really does demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world works and where power lies. But then as an ex-banker (although still a complete banker) maybe Nigel Farage understands very well and would rather people focused on Romanians and eurocrats.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well I'm strongly tempted to vote UKIP because of their stance on Europe. I don't consider that makes me a racist or a homophobe.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Depends on whether you wish to give your vote to the right wing of the Tory party (UKIP) or just a wild guess, the Tory party. I assume not SNP or labour? Maybe green? Or lib dem?
It is a free country pintail despite all the unnecessary EU regulations giving rights to workers and women, you can vote for who you like. The history of UKIP is peppered with their members making homophobic or racist remarks. If you feel you can ignore this because their stance on Europe is up your street then that is your decision.
Posted 10 years ago # -
But since UKIP is full of racists and homophobes it would make you a supporter of racists and homophobes.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Obviously I'm not going to agree with that conclusion. The Yes campaign has many supporters who are racist against the English. If your conclusion were valid it would mean that anyone voting Yes is a supporter of racism.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Pintail, UKIP has councillors and possibly MEPs who make racist statements in public. I do not think there are YES candidates who make such statements in public. The next level down is people who are paid up members of political parties. Rules exist in various parties e.g. Labour and SNP that would expel members for being racist or homophobic. It almost seems like you have to be racist or homophobic to be a member of UKIP. After that we have your point about supporters. All parties attract supporters who are loonies and fruitcakes, again this seems to be a prerequisite for many UKIP supporters.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Better Together co-ordinator defects to Labour for Independence"
From one to the other, without passing don't know!
Presumably balanced by someone doing the opposite(?)
Posted 10 years ago # -
Good point. I suppose I'd need to frame it in terms of UKIP itself being racist and homophobic. Let's see, is UKIP racist and homophobic? Yup. Not just in its own policies but in the views of many of its leading members and supporters and the groups it associates itself with.
OK. I'll try that one again: but since UKIP is racist and homophobic it would make you a supporter of racists and homophobes.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Everyone has started being very guarded about their views. In Fred’s case he talked about Scotland looking to Norway like a good-looking woman sitting at a bar and a drunk Scotsman trying to chat her up... then waking up in the morning with the Faroes.
Quite clever, I thought and, of course, as all my ancestors are Norwegian, I think it is odd that Scotland (or certain politicians) think they can look to Norway for guidance.
Norway achieved independence more than 100 years ago and has taken at least 60 or 70 of these years to be where they are today, rich, successful and very attractive.
"
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm not going to pass judgement on anyone voting UKIP - they are a legitimate political party and everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, UKIP's goal of leaving the EU is fundamentally flawed. If you want unfettered access to the EU marketplace then you have to abide by all their rules - whether an EU member or not. Norway and Switzerland have to abide by every bit of EU legislation, they just don't get any say over the content of that legislation as they are EFTA rather than EU members. Interestingly, Norway invests many millions of krona in "aid" in poorer EU countries who, somewhat surprisingly, seem to support the Norwegian position during EU negotiations.
Switzerland is trying to prevent free movement of EU citizens into their country. The EU is now threatening to deny them full access to the EU market, which they can do. It's a very big stick to threaten a trading nation with.
The UK could try and negotiate some other type of access to EU markets I suppose - but from a very weak negotiating position, as the EU is a huge market compared to the UK.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@chdot
That labour for Indy website has benefited from the lottery millions? 2700 cybernats seen it already.
Wonder how many people that makes in labour for Indy now? As the lottery millions do not cover the No side the 13per cent of SNP voters (for Holyrood) who do not support independence cannot set up their own website.
Hopefully the lottery winners who are fed up with all the spin will donate three million to the no campaign too?
Posted 10 years ago # -
What morningsider said.
Posted 10 years ago # -
One problem with UKIP is that it has attracted members who go along with the Farage line about it 'not being acceptable anymore to be non-PC in attitudes or jokes'.
So there is a 'PC too far' feeling to match 'elfnsafety madness'.
The trouble is many UKIPers seem unable to differentiate between 'non-PC', old fashioned and straightforward racist or homophobic attitudes/remarks which are either (widely) socially unacceptable or (sometimes) illegal.
And then there is Twitter.
Some people got into trouble for 'joking' about knocking down cyclists - they were of course 'young and foolish' - and not trying to get elected.
Farage/UKIP has got rid of some people, but he shouldn't really be surprised if his party (and billboards) attract such people.
On the assumption that he is not naive, he is presumably cynical - and perhaps reckless.
I think the Greens will get more votes than UKIP in Scotland, but neither will get a seat.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"cannot set up their own website"
Er
Anyone can set up their own website.
Doesn't cost millions.
Money doesn't always get you what you want, ask Mr. Souter.
Posted 10 years ago # -
True / made up fact - the yes side can pay a firm to print and distribute their leaflets. The no side still stuffing envelopes themselves.
Fairly certain the labour for Indy site set up by web design people as they have had to capture the labour icons without permission etc. not samizdat.
I think the yes campaign will have to be careful as it looks quite like they are trying to throw a lot of money (much more than the no side have) at the population to try to influence them.this might backfire? Not the yes side's fault that one grassroots supporter gave them three million but can be used to advantage by their opponents?
Posted 10 years ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
posts
