Wfb I come from Birmingham, the birthplace of the industrial revolution and a powerhouse of Victorian manufacturing. The three most famous engineers in the city's history are Boulton, Watt and Murdoch. Only Boulton was English, you'll no doubt have heard of Watt, Murdoch too was Scottish. Scots and English working together as compatriots in the United Kingdom, this is both my heritage and that of most Scots. Long may it continue.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
White Paper (THE #indyref thread)
(2915 posts)- Started 11 years ago by Morningsider
- Latest reply from chdot
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Posted 10 years ago #
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So have we abandoned Darien?
What would stop people working elsewhere in this island after Yes?
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
The first figure to emerge is turnout across Scotland: varying from 43.1% in East Renfrewshire and 41.6% in Edinburgh to 29.3% in East Ayrshire and 28.1% in North Lanarkshire.
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BBC TV News says half Scottish LAs counted and UKIP heading for 6th seat.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Posted 10 years ago # -
Screw up by the returning officer in Kettering.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Compiled by Gabriella Bennett and Gillian FurmageHere's a regional breakdown of how you voted for the six main parties. The local ballots are added together to decide which parties send the six Scottish MEPs to the European Parliament.
Aberdeen City: SNP 15,412 (29.5%) Lab 12,420 (23.8%) Con 9824 (18.8%) UKIP 5025 (9.6%) LD 4605 (8.8%) Green 3723 (7.1%)
Aberdeenshire: SNP 19,802 (31.3%) Con 15,710 (24.8%) LD 8876 (14%) UKIP 7420 (11.7%) Lab 6402 (10.1%) Green 3612 (5.7%)
Angus: SNP 11,044 (37.7%) Con 7534 (25.7%) Lab 3768 (12.9%) UKIP 3200 (10.9%) Green 1574 (5.4%) LD 1486 (5.1%)
Argyll & Bute: SNP 7792 (28.4%) Con 5191 (18.9%) LD 5174 (18.8%) Lab 3695 (13.4%) UKIP 3030 (11%) Green 1912 (7%)
Clackmannanshire: SNP 4074 (33.4%) Lab 3825 (31.4%) Con 1624 (13.3%) UKIP 1218 (10%) Green 736 (6%) LD 443 (3.6%)
Dumfries and Galloway: Con 14,143 (33%) Lab 8909 (20.8%) SNP 8634 (20.2%) UKIP 5752 (13.4%) Green 2418 (5.7%) LD 1808 (4.2%)
Dundee: SNP 13,573 (40.2%), Lab 9050 (26.8%) Con 4010 (11.9%) UKIP 2965 (8.8%) Green 2193 (6.5%) LD 1248 (3.7%)
East Ayrshire: SNP 9320 (33.3%) Lab 9274 (33.1%) Con 3955 (14.1%) UKIP 2753 (9.8%) Green 1304 (4.7%) LD 629 (2.2%)
East Dunbartonshire: SNP 8134 (25.7%) Lab 7475 (23.6%) Con 5401 (17.1%) LD 4500 (14.2%) UKIP 3148 (9.9%) Green 2405 (7.6%)
East Lothian: Lab 8145 (29.3%) SNP 6781 (24.4%) Con 5807 (20.9%) UKIP 2756 (9.9%) Green 2250 (8.1%) LD 1586 (5.7%)
East Renfrewshire: Con 8044 (27.8%) Lab 7623 (26.3%) SNP 6564 (22.7%) UKIP 2949 (10.2%) Green 2031 (7%) LD 1191 (4.1%)
Edinburgh: Lab 32,758 (23.1%) SNP 32,721 (23%) Con 27,554 (19.4%) Green 22,836 (16.1%) LD 12,575 (8.9%) UKIP 10,992 (7.7%)
Falkirk: SNP 11,542 (33.7%) Lab 10,343 (30.2%) UKIP 4360 (12.7%) Con 4038 (11.8%) Green 2046 (6%) LD 859 (2.4%)
Fife: Lab 28,101 (30.6%) SNP 25,660 (28%) Con 12,460 (13.6%) UKIP 9515 (10.4%) LD 7956 (8.7%) Green 5975 (6.5%)
Glasgow: Lab 45,676 (35.2%) SNP 37,820 (29.1%) Green 15,359 (11.8%) UKIP 12,638 (9.7%) Con 10,985 (8.5%) LD 6830 (3%)
Highland: SNP 19,810 (30.3%) LD 12,189 (18.7%) Lab 9163 (14%) Con 9088 (13.9%) UKIP 7818 (12%) Green 5615 (8.6%)
Inverclyde: Lab 7286 (35.8%) SNP 5842 (28.7%) Con 2878 (14.2%) UKIP 1887 (9.3%) LD 973 (4.8%) Green 929 (4.6%)
Midlothian: Lab 6893 (31.2%) SNP 6386 (28.9%) Con 2908 (13.1%)UKIP 2361 (10.7%) Green 1903 (8.6%) LD 1142 (5.2%)
Moray: SNP 7641 (33.8%) Con 5471 (24.2%) UKIP 3064 (13.6%) Lab 2955 (13.1%) Green 1609 (7.1%) LD 1205 (5.3%)
North Ayrshire: SNP 10,736 (32.6%) Lab 9558 (28.8%) Con 5627 (17%) UKIP 3720 (11.2%) Green 1770 (5.3%) LD 855 (2.6%)
North Lanarkshire: Lab 28,417 (40%) SNP 21,884 (30.8%) UKIP 7623 (10.7%) Con 6037 (8.5%) Green 3665 (5.2%) LD 1167 (1.6%)
Orkney: LD 1825 (35.2%) SNP 872 (16.8%) Con 679 (13.1%) Green 619 (12%) UKIP 618 (11.9%) Lab 466 (9%)
Perth & Kinross: SNP 14,271 (33%) Con 12,906 (29.8%) Lab 4890 (11.3%) UKIP 4386 (10.1%) LD 3377 (7.8%) Green 2723 (6.3%)
Renfrewshire: Lab 16,021 (35.1%) SNP 13,449 (29.6%) Con 5777 (12.7%) UKIP 4748 (10.4%) Green 2810 (6.2%) LD 1508 (3.3%)
Scottish Borders: Con 9972 (30.8%) SNP 6775 (20.6%) LD 5465 (16.7%) UKIP 4058 (12.4%) Lab 3363 (10.4%) Green 2459 (7.5%)
Shetland: LD 1755 (33.9%) SNP 897 (17.3%) Green 638 (12.3%) UKIP 616 (11.9%) Lab 580 (11.4%) Con 543 (10.5%)
South Ayrshire: Con 9848 (30.3%) SNP 8787 (27.1%) Lab 7226 (22.3%) UKIP 3339 (10.3%) Green 1550 (4.8%) LD 975 (3%)
South Lanarkshire: Lab 24,871 (33.4%) SNP 21,915 (29.4%) Con 10,261 (13.8%) UKIP 8186 (11%) Green 4452 (6%) LD 2635 (3.5%)
Stirling: SNP 7258 (28.9%) Lab 5651 (22.5%) Con 5568 (22.1%) Green 2640 (10.5%) UKIP 2201 (8.8%) LD 1435 (5.7%)
West Dunbartonshire: Lab 7631 (38%) SNP 6468 (32.2%) UKIP 2113 (10.5%) Con 1624 (8.1%) Green 1339 (6.7%) LD 379 (1.9%)
West Lothian: SNP 14,279 (32.4%) Lab 13,932 (31.7%) UKIP 5228 (11.9%) Con 5102 (11.6%) Green 2710 (6.2%) LD 1425 (3.2%)
Western Isles: (declaring Monday)
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Posted 10 years ago # -
Interesting results from our crackpot cousins down south.
YES to leaving that lot behind.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Radio 4 news reports that Labour beat the Tories in Scotland. That's true but they never mentioned that Labour didn't win the highest percentage of the vote. They didn't mention the highest polling party at all.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I suspect that I won't be alone in now regretting my vote for a party that will not get a seat. That'll teach me.
I am finding it very, very hard to comprehend the BBC's role in all this. They appear to be backing (or at least not to care that they seem to be backing) the British State in the referendum and UKIP in the European elections.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
WESTERN ISLESTo be declared today
TOTAL VOTES CAST
SNP 386193
Lab 346377
Con 230569
Ukip 139687
Green 107805
Lib Dem 95076
Britain First 13551
BNP 10150
NO 2 EU 6388
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http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-european-election-2014-results-1-3422454
And the bad news is that there will be hours, days, weeks and months of analysis and predictions about what this means for the referendum and next year's general election.
Some facts -
Most people didn't vote.
Scotland has an extra party.
All the rest is speculation!
Posted 10 years ago # -
"I suspect that I won't be alone in now regretting my vote for a party that will not get a seat. That'll teach me."
Perhaps, but apart from 'benefitting from hindsight' it's better to have voted for the party of your choice.
10% of people in Scotland who voted voted for UKIP. it turns out that if a few more had chosen to vote for the SNP rather than 'their' party the SNP would have got another seat instead of UKIP.
It could be argued that more of the people who don't like the SNP or UKIP 'should' have voted Green.
Etc.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Eurgh. Hope whatever proportion of the non-voting two-thirds who wouldn't have voted for the Yuck party are feeling dreadfully ashamed.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@wingpig
To be fair, it's hard to know how to vote to express any misgivings about the EU without actually electing a halfwit.
I have always regarded the EU as an excellent bulwark against war in Europe and its expansion to cover Romania, Bulgaria and so on as utter lunacy. The Euro's a good idea for northern Europe, but Greece, Italy and Cyprus never qualified for membership and have suffered horribly as a result of joining in a project that could only ever lead to tutelage.
If I want to roll the EU back to dealing only with western Europe's common issues who do I vote for...there being, as we know, no mechanism for removing EU citizenship once granted.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"...no mechanism for removing EU citizenship once granted..."
Also no mechanism for removing an MEP from office mid-term.
My main gripe is that people aligning themselves with distastefully inflammatory opinions are now being paid money to express them to a wide range of international colleagues whilst purporting to represent my approximate geographical area.
At least I moved well away from Lincolnshire twenty years ago.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Perhaps, but apart from 'benefitting from hindsight' it's better to have voted for the party of your choice.
Amen to that. If you don't vote for them, then they shrink in importance, perhaps cease to exist, and then you end up without a party that most closely reflects your views.
Whereas if you vote for another party that you don't particularly like simply to stop a party you really dislike getting a seat, you're then faced with the party that you don't particularly like claiming it has a mandate to do all sorts of stuff you don't like.
Democracy's great, isn't it?
Posted 10 years ago # -
What's so bad about Lincolnshire?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Europe clearly isn't working. Even the French, for so long it's main architect and main beneficiary have voted in droves for an anti-EU party.
Posted 10 years ago # -
On the other hand, as no-one’s invaded Belgium recently you could argue the EU is working very well...
Posted 10 years ago # -
@pintail
I can't agree with your notion that Europe doesn't work. Its main job is to prevent another Franco-German war, and it has done that so well that no one takes the achievement seriously.
Europe is prosperous and peaceful, and the EU has played its part in that.
The FN is much more than just anti-EU. It is Republican (in the French sense, natch) and authoritarian. And highly skeptical of big business and especially big finance.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Darkerside, don't mention Belgium, Salmond's pal Putin may get ideas...
Posted 10 years ago # -
Pintail,
Which states have used military force to effect regime change in the last decade?
Posted 10 years ago # -
@pintail
Is this the Putin you are looking for?
http://www.canindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/09/92-300x225.jpg
The whole 'Fat Slippery Fishy Traitor Friend of Dictators Alex Salmon' meme doesn't really work if you have access to the internet.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Even if he's not prepared to acknowledge the need for a Plan B on the pound, Salmond's cosying up to Putin does seem to be hinting at a Plan B on Europe, if Europe won't play ball with him then he has his friend in Moscow who certainly will.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@pintail
Vote No and cosy up to a better class of despot!
There's no need for a 'plan B'. We'll use our currency, which is Sterling.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Of course I was forgetting, in Salmond's promised land all negotiations will go his way, he will win currency union, he will win representation in the Bank of England, he will win swift membership of the EU, he will walk away from Scotland's share of UK debt, he will remove our nuclear defences, he will seamlessly establish all the new regulatory bodies required and all with money left over not only to increase public spending but to also set up an oil fund from day one. Dream on.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"he will remove our nuclear defences"
We don't have any 'nuclear defences'. There are nuclear terror weapons in Strathclyde, but their inability to defend us was comprehensively demonstrated in 1982 when sovereign British territory was invaded by another state while a fully armed Polaris submarine was at sea.
So your dread prospect is for me a consummation devoutly to be wished.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Hereafter speaks a man very carefully:
The invasion of the Falklands despite a V-boat being at sea isn’t relevant to the argument for or against binning nuclear weapons. They’re fundamentally not designed for that kind of war, nor is conventional warfare the thing they’re intended to deter.
Argentina was confident (thankfully) that the UK would not respond to a conventional attack with nuclear options.
In the current global environment, I struggle to see the point in a nuclear deterrent. So long as we stay friendly with America, I probably can’t see the point in the future either.
Is that too many probablies to be happy not continuing with Successor?
Maybe...
Posted 10 years ago # -
"devoutly to be wished."
Yes that about sums up the level of realism in Salmond's empty promises.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@pintail
News just in: Alex Salmond doesn't have time to come on here. Don't think he's even a bicyclist. What is this weird obsession with the current First Minister?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Does Salmond not head the Separatist campaign ? Glad to clear that up.
Posted 10 years ago #
Topic Closed
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