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CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
White Paper (THE #indyref thread)
(2915 posts)- Started 11 years ago by Morningsider
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Posted 10 years ago #
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Still waiting for Iain Grey to be FM.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"
Gordon Brown has insisted it is inevitable that the Scottish parliament will quickly gain significant new tax and legal powers after a clear consensus emerged between the main UK parties.
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/03/gordon-brown-scottish-parliament-devolution-powers
Posted 10 years ago # -
Gordon who?
Posted 10 years ago # -
He used to be Chancellor of Fife.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Interesting intervention by the Swedish foreign minister;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27696769
The points he raises in respect of the EU membership of the UK and the putative rUK are interesting ones.
The point in respect of Ulster has interested me for some time. I can never understand why both the London regime and inhabitants of that place tolerate a situation where the rule of law is patchy at best. Given that a Yes vote would end the existence of the country with which Ulster is in union, I've always wondered if they wouldn't then be tempted to take their chances with the Republic rather than be dragged out of the EU by an isolationist England.
Thoughts, Roibeard?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Gordon who?
He used to be Chancellor of Fife.
There's a famous quotation by him but the comma is normally mistakenly missed out.No, more boom and bust
Posted 10 years ago # -
Alas, not everyone is as enamoured of Carl Bildt as Jackson Carlaw appears to be. "Carl Bildt is a hypocrite': Swedish Pirate MEP
What is it with right wing European politicians lecturing Scotland on what it can or cannot do? 'Balkanisation' might have some relation to Norn Iron, but I can't really see the parallels with (modern) Scotland.
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Posted 10 years ago #
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"What is it with right wing European politicians lecturing Scotland"
One of the key features of our age has surely been the ability of capital to organise internationally while the citizens remain organised at national level, if at all. I'd guess that like Barosso before, this chap sees his own class in trouble and wishes to show solidarity.
Not clear if he regards the separation of Norway from Sweden as unwarranted Balkanisation.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'd guess that like Barosso before, this chap sees his own class in trouble and wishes to show solidarity.
Yes, that's probably about right.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Interesting Wikileaks data on Carl Bildt:
"The source also claims that Bildt thinks that Sweden should become a great power in the world. Sweden's influence in the Baltic region is mentioned several times.
Moreover, Bildt is said to feel distaste for Croats and Albanians after his experiences as mediator in the Balkan war 1992-1995.
The Wikileaks documents also describes Bildt as very critical against Russia. He is also supposed to have labelled Russia's current Prime Minister Vladimir Putin as 'a chetnic' (Serbian nationalist) and that he is a persona non grata in Russia."
How to win friends and influence people? Presumably he also harbours "distate" for Scots and Norn Irish?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I do think Scottish independence does have bearing on Northern Ireland [1]. I'm not very party political, so I'm probably not the best judge, however I would doubt that Unionists are more interested in ties to the EU (The Netherlands not withstanding!), than to ties to the Crown. I suspect they'd stay in the UK regardless.
Similarly the Nationalists are likely to prefer union with the Republic of Ireland regardless - they've wanted it since partition, which much predates the EU, never mind membership of it.
Rule of law is an interesting discussion - "normal" crime is low in Northern Ireland, and enforcing the law on "freedom fighters" tends to backfire, where they (appear to) have popular support. I, personally, have no issue with treating terrorists as criminals, but they themselves fought hard to be recognised as political prisoners rather than "ordinary" vandals, murderers and those committing criminal damage. I, for one, don't care what rationale someone has for illegally and immorally taking these actions.
Hmmm, that wasn't the question, where was I...?
Ah yes, the Unionists are loyal to the Crown, however perhaps a third way could be developed on the Scottish model, an independent Northern Ireland, with the Crown as a constitutional figurehead. It might please no one, and it might not be possible economically (particularly given the "peace dividend"), but it could end up fulfilling Bismarck's solution - swap the Dutch and Irish peoples, and the Dutch making Ireland the most beautiful island in the world and the Irish drowning as a result of infighting instead of maintaining the dykes.
Robert
[1] Ulster being a geographic description which doesn't match the political boundaries. Cf Great Britain, which will continue to exist regardless of independence!
Posted 10 years ago # -
which will continue to exist regardless of independence!
You say that, but "we've" got the nukes! :D
Posted 10 years ago # -
The nearest thing we have to an equivalent of the SG's White Paper may be the Queen's Speech. It's the governement's vision of where the country is going. Here are HMG's highlights;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27693435
I'm pretty sure that slavery is already illegal. Interesting that child care is addressed in much the same way as the SG proposes. It will be legal to be heroic. It will be illegal to damage your children. You can sack your MP. Populist lightweight stuff I'd say.
Posted 10 years ago # -
You say that, but "we've" got the nukes
By "we" you mean the Pentagon, right?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Couple of interesting snippets from Twottar:
On Brenda's speech:
---GAPonsonby @GAPonsonby
Unionists deny the BBC is anti-independence. This means the following news bulletin didn't happen. http://t.co/OmXgNMTBg0 #indyref---
On Bildt's 'Balkanisation':
---Iain Macwhirter @iainmacwhirter
Kim il Salmond to annex North of England in new Balkan war inspired by his idol Putin. Heard it here first.---
Posted 10 years ago # -
Alasdair darling getting rude. Salmond as Kim Jong il and then a more controversial blood and soil remark in new statesman.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Cripes. I didn't see the significance of the blood and soil comment when I read it earlier. That's desperate stuff. Project Smear.
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Posted 10 years ago #
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Maybe he's been reading this -
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-05-27/prejudice-goes-global
Posted 10 years ago # -
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Mr Séan Adams (@ASairFecht)
04/06/2014 21:59
Blood and soil. So @TogetherDarling didn't say it. Means @NewStatesman made it up. And @BBCNews quoted the made-up, non-statement? Really?"
Posted 10 years ago # -
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maggie vaughan (@maggivaughan) tweeted at 9:59pm - 4 Jun 14:@thoughtland @davidtorrance Eh. Except he didn't use those words. Tape replayed to NS. Accept Jason Cowley did. Apologising. (https://twitter.com/maggivaughan/status/474294457182203904)
"
(That's Mrs. AD)
Posted 10 years ago # -
A new low in the No campaign's tactics today. Dreadful stuff.
Before the censor at New Statesman blog comes along and changes it, here's that Darling 'blood and soil' quote:
"It [the SNP] is a national party. Scotland is not a colony, it never has been. . . when it came to colonialism, Scotland was up there with the rest of them. The SNP does not offer a civic nationalism . . . at heart it is blood-and-soil nationalism. If you ask any nationalist, ‘Are there any circumstances in which you would not vote to be independent?’ they would say the answer has got to be no. It is about how people define themselves through their national identity."
Here's the Korean quote:
"He said on the BBC that people voted Ukip in Scotland because English TV was being beamed into Scotland. This was a North Korean response. This is something that Kim Jong-il would say. And this is the same BBC for which we all pay our licence fee, and we all enjoy the national output as well as the Scottish output."
Whereas what Salmond actually said was, well luckily, it was live on BBC TV so of course the entire exchange is on YonTub:
Posted 10 years ago # -
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Clarification, 22.36: Owing to a transcription error,
...
NS: But that's what he says it is. Why do you say it isn't? What is it? Blood and soil nationalism?
Darling: At heart . . . [inaudible mumble] If you ask any nationalist, ‘Are there any circumstances in which you would not vote to be independent?’ they would say the answer has got to be no. It is about how people define themselves through their national identity.
"
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/06/alistair-darling-interview-salmond-behaving-kim-jong-il
Posted 10 years ago # -
"UKIP's a party that gets beamed into Scotland courtesy of the BBC" is what he said. I suppose "into" is the operative word. It's not BBC Scotland if it's "into".
Posted 10 years ago # -
Transcription error ma bahookey. I'd say the New Statesman sexed up that bit of the interview.
Posted 10 years ago # -
This is awful stuff. Nonetheless, even as someone involved with Yes Scotland, I have to say that Darling's words have no bearing on the question at hand; Should Scotland be an independent country?
If Mr Darling is unwell, or unable to fulfill his duties for any other reason then I hope that his employer will see to it that he is looked after. If his employer considers these words to be reasonable in the context of his duties then I would not know what to say.
Posted 10 years ago # -
It's not BBC Scotland if it's "into".
I suppose he was referring to the likes of Newsnight, Question Time, Today Programme, PM, 6 O Clock News and every other BBC news/politics/current affairs show that fell over itself to cover UKIP. All of these shows are produced in London and/or Salford, even if the actual emissions are coming from transmitters in Scotland. I'm not that much of a Salmond fan, but he certainly had a very valid point that "central" BBC was going all out to give UKIP an airtime well in excess of their actual political representation or any previous electoral success.
I guess it's all OK then. If I've read it all right, Darling was only comparing 'Eck to one mass-murdering tinpot dictator, and not implying a likeness to any other, different mass-murdering dictator?
Posted 10 years ago # -
I think Question Time is credited to BBC Scotland.
I also think this is just a paper exercise so they can claim more spending on programs in Scotland.
Posted 10 years ago #
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