closed@Morningsider
"I don't represent anyone except myself."
Ditto. I never accused you of anything else, did I?
"Are you really saying that people shouldn't challenge what they see as factual inaccuracies or misrepresentations because other arguments were based on factual inaccuracies or misrepresentations?"
That's not what I said. In summary, I said using people's "fairly limited knowledge" of a topic as a basis to argue that a position is "verging on misinformation" is a moot point given the overall 'debate'.
"I'm not a campaign group - I just comment where I feel I have something to add."
Ditto. I never accused you of anything else, did I?
"I'm perfectly well aware that a cut to the Scottish block grant could have an impact on NHS Scotland's budget as it is the largest single budget under Scottish Government control. Ultimately, that is a matter for the Scottish Government - which sets the budget for NHS Scotland."
It does not set the budget, it divides up the block grant into budget allocations. Yes there is flexibility within those spending limits, but as you say if the block grant is reduced this will force 'difficult choices' (Blairspeak alert) to be made on public spending commitments.
"here's a quote from an article in the yes supporting Sunday Herald"
Okay, but your original response was in relation to the Observer article link I posted (the second link you footnote in you second response on this topic), which did not claim any direct link between *current* NHS privatisation and consequential cuts.
In any case, even in the SH quote it would appear to be looking at what's coming up in the future, not what is happening now. This is alluded to in the Observer too, looking at what will happen over the next decade given the continuing 'austerity' regime, demographic changes, etc.
"This shows that private companies are already extensively used in NHS England, with no implications for Scotland. The way the UK Government has altered the set up of NHS England is to allow public sector commissioning of health services that can be provided by either public or private sector companies. The taxpayer will still foot the bill - so no Barnett implications for Scotland."
It's not as simple as that - see below. Also, if patient charges to visit GPs are introduced it will have an impact. Just one example of what think-tanks are floating, which may or may not be picked up in Whitehall.
"I'm perfectly happy for a new needs-based funding allocation formula to replace Barnett - difficult to see how you can argue with that (assuming the criteria are fair)."
Well there's the nub: the criteria. What does "fair" mean in this context? The implication of that statement is that you're happy for Scotland to be treated administratively like a region of England, rather than a (supposedly) equal partner in a union. Is that "fair"? If devolution means anything, shouldn't the Scottish Parliament and Government be deciding what Scotland's needs are?
Let's not be naive about Barnett: if it goes, Scotland wlll no longer receive a straight percentage share of the UK budget for devolved areas. Instead ministers in Whitehall will decide what Scotland needs. How will they determine what Scotland needs in each devolved area? According to their own policies and priorities? Or according to the Scottish Parliament and Government's policies and priorities? Which do you think is more likely?
"I'm happy to be proved wrong about this though, if you have any examples of NHS England privatisation that have had an impact on NHS Scotland's budget or structure then I would be keen to know about them."
I understand the UK government has trailed the Health and Social Care Act and its privatisation agenda as delivering savings to the public purse of up to £1 billion per year through to 2019/20. That is, public expenditure will be cut by this amount: the consequential cuts to the Scottish block grant would be in the order of £600 million over the next 6 years.
You don't have to take my word for it though: Labour’s Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham said “privatisation is being forced through at pace and scale”. He also warned “people are facing charges for services or treatments that are free to others elsewhere.” He's also claimed that the coalition has “put the NHS up for sale” and stated “if we allow the continued advance of the market into the NHS it will eventually destroy everything that’s precious about it.”
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