CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
closed"presumably there will be some evidence of this"
Suspect it's more a question of making assumptions based the consequences of other countries breaking up and (mis)reading of a general 'anti-immigrant' climate - mostly (in media/political terms) from south of the border.
That is not to pretend that everyone in Edinburgh is civil to all 'foreigners'. I'm sure there are people saying 'when Scotland is independent ... ' - some may even be planning to vote Yes.
"What about the Norwegian sovereign wealth fund? They won't give it to us."
Not expecting a gift - it's basically an investment bank.
"They might say - you spent it."
And they might say 'it's a pity that you let another Gov spend 'your' money, we can do you some more at 2% over the BofE base rate'.
Or 'or how about joining a krone CU?'
Other currencies are available -
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That truth is that very few nations exercise full control over their own affairs. The 19th century idea of the nation state is dead and gone.
What modern nations do now, in the 21st century, is to pool sovereignty with their neighbours. Some powers are retained, and some are willingly shared.
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http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-can-be-changed-for-better-with-a-no-vote-1-3541041
Does it have to be a neighbour you share a land border with??
Usually it's the ones that you do the bulk of your trading with.
"And they might say 'it's a pity that you let another Gov spend 'your' money"
I think it was our own government that spent the money, with our help.
"we can do you some more at 2% over the BofE base rate'."
Would that be a good deal? I don't know but if it's basically an investment fund, you're not going to get cheap loans from them out of solidarity.
An incredible weekend of campaigning for our Yes Scotland group finished with the news I thought I would never hear.
My neighbour - a rough diamond, autodidact, socialist and Orange Order member is voting Yes.
I think the Union is now finished come what may on Thursday and I can't help hoping for the first time in this saga that Her Britannic Majesty will actually have to interrupt her holiday in North Britain on Friday. The most radical political project in the UK since 1945 or even 1922 is in with a very real shout.
Meanwhile in Sweden -
"
The leader of Sweden's Social Democrats says he will try to form a government after their election win, but will not work with the far right.
Results show Stefan Lofven's opposition party is set to return to power, but with no clear parliamentary majority.
...
The Social Democrats, Greens and Left Party have fallen short of a parliamentary majority, leaving them dependent on support from the far-right, anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, which became the country's third largest party with close to 13% of the vote.
...
Meanwhile, results confirm that a small feminist party that had hoped to enter parliament failed to reach the 4% threshold.
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"Would that be a good deal?"
At 2%, perhaps not. I was merely suggesting that (perhaps) there are alternatives to the 'world money market'.
"I don't know but if it's basically an investment fund, you're not going to get cheap loans from them out of solidarity."
That may well be true. But I would hope they had an understanding of oil in and around the North Sea, and (perhaps) - more importantly - an understanding longer than 'shorttermism'.
There has been a lot of talk (I presume not just Lesley Riddoch!) of 'going Nordic' - I also presume it's more than 'we want their services but not their taxes'.
"Usually it's the ones that you do the bulk of your trading with."
How does that work with the island of Ireland?
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@Edinburgh_CC: We expect the polling places to be busy. They will be open 7am until 10pm on Thursday, make sure you allow enough time to vote. #indyref
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@EdinburghLabour: We are out in the rain this morning campaigning for a #LabourNo vote this Thursday #indyref http://t.co/vInnn7nqyu
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@glopol_analysis: #indyref #VoteYes Iceland suffered attacks by banks & major natural disasters yet Recovered due to its Independence > http://t.co/ofkvacRfGx
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Wow, take an afternoon off to have a family meal and come back to projection and mis perception even more than usual.
An independent Scotland would still be a capitalist country the SNP are social democrats welded to capitalism. The SNP will still be running Scotland until 2016. There isn't an option on the ballot paper - Yes but not SNP in 2016.
as a labour voter I find myself in an odd coalition with some nice liberals and some quite passionate if misguided Tories but the SW Edinurgh Better Together is a coalition steered by organisers who are aligned to labour.
If you are Yes but not SNP you are in a minority (certainly in SW Edonburgh). salmond' success has been partly due to his grip on the factions within the SNP.
Non-SNP projections of a future Scotland are just that, projections. Not onto a blank wall. But onto what Alex SAlmond decrees.
Come 2016 things might shift which I am guessing is what non-SNP Yes people are hoping. personally I think this is unlikely.
"How does that work with the island of Ireland?"
They Republic of Ireland is an independent country in an economic union with its major trading partners as part of the EU. It is in a currency union with those countries. It is moving inexhorably into a political union with them, ceding sovereignty and control over the 'economic levers' as it goes.
The northern counties, Northern Ireland are in a political and currency union with Great Britain and in an economic union with the republic through the EU, so it has its major trading partners covered.
From The Guardian's live blog:
"Better Together have sent out an endorsement from Sir Dave Brailsford, the British Cycling performance director when the Scot Sir Chris Hoy [won] his Olympic medals. Brailsford says:"
"Scotland has been a huge part of the success of British Cycling, and I hope the UK stays together for the benefit of all sport, but especially Olympic sports like ours ... I was born in England but raised in Wales with Welsh as my first language, and I feel passionately Welsh, English and British, and I feel all the countries of the UK are a big part of my national identity."
Someone somewhere on Twitter said something along the lines of "Do people really trust celebs for political views?" or similar in response to the addition of the latest sportsperson-brand-entity to Team BT last night.
I hope the UK stays together for the benefit of all sport
Intesting quote, @wingpig. I often wonder when people say 'sport' if they actually mean watching sport on television. I suspect I'm in a very small group in never feeling any pride in anyone else's sporting achievements, in much the same way as I don't expect anyone to take any pride in my occasional outings as a fat, ageing jogger.
Does anyone think the citizens of iScotland would become more active than if they remained UK citizens? I'd like to think so, but it's hard to know.
Sport's a tricky one to try and include in the package of Things Which Will Stop Might Change in the Aftermath of Yes, when popular sport-things things like association shoutball are already organisationally demarcated between Scotland and England/Wales/(is NI part of the same shoutball league/association as England/Wales?), if I vaguely remember my unavoidably-absorbed knowledge of sports I detest correctly.
I have noticed a rise in number of No Thanks posters going up in and around the New Town and Regent Terrace. Quite a number of oversized union flags too (fresh out the packet, still with the fold marks in them).
Others may differ in opinion but I personally think decking out mansions costing into the millions is going to reinforce the "them and us" perception that many may have of the campaign.
Scottish Liberal Democrat Club at Haymarket has put up a big No Thanks sign in their window. Their window now therefore reads "Scottish Liberal Democrats. No Thanks". I'm sure some will agree.
I've seen two upside down union flags so far (on poles obvs). One has been corrected.
"Northern Ireland are in a political and currency union with Great Britain and in an economic union with the republic through the EU, so it has its major trading partners covered."
So if/when UK/rUK leaves Europe?
@wingpig
England's best ever looking shoutballer says just say No;
@kaputnik
I'm not a natural flag waver, but I did have the self-awareness to iron my Yes saltire at the 'synthetic' setting before attaching it to my fishing rod yesterday.
"
I feel passionately Welsh, English and British, and I feel all the countries of the UK are a big part of my national identity.
"
That's fine.
But really indyref is about governance more than identity.
I was out with the 'working classes' at a wedding reception at the weekend. I was surprised at two things.
1. I no longer have the alcohol tollerence of any of my previous peer group (don't know why I was surprised at this really). They really know how to party (I miss that a wee bit.).
2. At the table I was sat at, which consisted of a factory worker, a warehouse worker, a retired iron works worker, a retired cleaner, 3 call centre workers, a bar maid, a nursing auxiliary, and an IT professional. The straw poll of those who 'should' be natural Yes voters (according to the poorer you are the more likely you will be yes theory) was:
1 Yes (me).
8 No's.
1 No - postal vote, who now wishes he had voted Yes.
Of course this is in no way representative of the entire working class population, but I was surprised that nearly all of them (except me and the postal vote) were convinced that "we don't have enough money to do what they want to do".
"1 No - postal vote, who now wishes he had voted Yes."
Vaguely related, and vaguely related to the what-if-dead-heat question further upthread: what if a postal voter deceases during the period between posting their postal vote and the closure of the polls? Is there an obligation on the part of friends/fambly to report the decession to the pertinent authorities if it is known that a postal vote was submitted? Just wondering, seeing as our voting systems (and the simple question) are not at risk of hanging chad-style uncertainties, what sort of flapping might occur if the vote is extremely close.
chdot - there are several options for maintaining trade with Ireland, which could include:
1. UK/rUK joins the European Free Trade Area (Norway, Iceland & Lichtenstein) then free trade with Ireland would continue.
2. UK/rUK joins EU free market through individual agreement, the only country to do this at present is Switzerland, again free trade with Ireland is maintained.
3. UK/rUK negotiates a free trade agreement with the EU, including Ireland.
4. No agreements - UK companies have to pay EU import taxes and tariffs. Could even require customs posts at the land border.
The EU has competence on international trade agreements, which means access to Ireland's markets would have to be done through the EU.
This is all off the top of my head - this stuff is fantastically complicated.
"This is all off the top of my head - this stuff is fantastically complicated."
Hope it all gets mentioned at the next General Election!
"1 No - postal vote, who now wishes he had voted Yes."
I think there are a few like that.
May be balanced by Yes postal voters who like the MoreDevo 'timetable' recently sprung on us and wish they could vote No.
@chdot
Not just a timetable, it's an iron timetable.
Have we done the 'How is an iS going to charge English students tuition fees but not the rest of the EU' debate on this thread.? Scrolling back, I couldn't see it.
Non-SNP projections of a future Scotland are just that, projections. Not onto a blank wall. But onto what Alex SAlmond decrees.
Come 2016 things might shift which I am guessing is what non-SNP Yes people are hoping. personally I think this is unlikely.
I declare an interest first as a member of the latter camp.
However a 2016 Scottish Government elected by PR would be fairly representative by and large of what people in Scotland chose to vote for. A Westminster Government elected in 2015 by FPTP most unlikely to be so.
A lot of non-SNP folks like myself will find it infinitely easier to accept the idea of an SNP-majority (or minority) government in iScotland Holyrood that "we didn't vote for" on the basis that they are representative of the national vote and the party that we did vote for has a representation in the parliament commensurate with it's electoral vote, a voice in the parliament and is in a position to influence policy especially where there's a minority government requiring a coalition.
In the event of a No vote, I can vote for and campaign for the green party until my dotage and I'll stick my neck out and say I'm never going to see Scotland return 5% green MPs in a Westminster election. Or perhaps even 1. If nobody but me wants to vote green, then that's fine; it's a sign that either the party or the campaign is unlelectable and needs fixing. But if the party builds a small but consistent share of the vote across the country and never gains any electoral advances because of the manner in which the system operates, then that's not the state of electoral affairs that anyone's ever going to talk me into thinking is a good one.
The dead postal voter would cancelled out by the toddlers and juveniles that have been registered.
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