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White Paper (THE #indyref thread)

(2915 posts)
  • Started 11 years ago by Morningsider
  • Latest reply from chdot
  • This topic is closed

  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @chdot

    If they (FB, Apple, Google, PayPal) have your current account(s) and social media data they have total information on your activities and can price loans with astonishing precision.

    'Casino' banking currently depends largely on the availability of retail deposits. They'll maybe need to look elsewhere in a short while.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  2. Instography
    Member

    "... that there is a swing to the status quo during the last phase of the campaign."

    But that's based on change between final polls and the actual vote. We've not had the final polls and not had the vote so we don't yet know if that 'law' is being violated or not. There are at least two theories for it that depend on what happens on the day itself.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    Here's Ewan Morrison's very public joining of the Yes campaign in July:

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/07/05/ive-decided-to-vote-yes-by-ewan-morrison/

    He has travelled politically all the way from the SWP to the libertarian free market right. It reminds me of the Living Marxism/Spiked magazine crew, but more so: he's gone further, verging on Tory. Unless of course his views are all just designed to be provocative.

    I actually know him a bit, more as an acquaintance, we first met 20-odd years ago. He was an outspoken contrarian then, and clearly still is. I can understand that, partly reminds me of myself at times. I do wonder about all this personal drama and flip-flopping though. He's been debating his defection in front of nearly 3,000 'friends' on Farcebook for a wee while now. Some have speculated his whole conversion to Yes, then to No, was just a massive wind up, or perhaps research for a novel. In jest, I proposed a working title: "Confessions of a Self-justifying Switcher".

    I think Mr. Morrison is just rather confused, unsure and bewildered. But he wants so desperately to be certain of his position. He seems to have issues with organised politics and movements in general, and can't resist swimming against the stream, seemingly for its own sake. That instinctive kicking against the collective probably makes for interesting writing, but it also comes across as a tad narcissistic. His self-conscious parading on soshul meedja of his struggles with the questions he tries to grapple with have been entertaining, but only rarely enlightening.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  4. stiltskin
    Member

    TBH. & I accept that I have already taken a view, I'm not sure the response piece does anything but reinforce Morrisson's argument. To me it seems all about the process of the Yes campaign, full of optimism, hope and allowing people alienated by the political process to have a say, without explaining how it is all going to work. I'm not sure that either article does anything but reiterate what we have known all along.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  5. stiltskin
    Member

  6. crowriver
    Member

    On opinion polls, this pundit seems to think No vote is underestimated. But who knows really?

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8987

    Also, from the comments a run down of the final #indyref polls before the actual vote:

    "Far as I can tell so far here’s what we are expecting for Scottish polls:
    TNS – 5pm Tues evening
    Survation – 10.30pm Tues night, Daily Mail
    Opinium – Tues night, Telegraph
    ICM (online) – Tues/Wed?, Scotsman
    Panelbase – ?? unconfirmed but expected
    YouGov – Wed night, Times/Sun
    MORI – Wed night, STV
    MORI – Thurs morning, Evening Standard"

    Posted 10 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    On journalists being intimidated, harassed etc.:

    ----

    NUJ Scotland @NUJScotland
    Just for clarification- the journalists considering police action - not from BBC. Physical violence threats were against two pro-Yes members

    ----

    Posted 10 years ago #
  8. crowriver
    Member

    @stiltskin, "I'm not sure the response piece does anything but reinforce Morrisson's argument."

    I'm not convinced he actually has an argument. He has a point of view, certainly. To be an argument he'd need some evidence, and he fails to supply any. We'll have to just take it on trust, I suppose: except he's not exactly proven himself a reliable narrator, has he?

    I'm not even convinced it's what he thinks, except for right at this moment. In a few days he'll think a different way, as Kevin Williamson alludes to.

    I still say my jokey reference to James Hogg's narrator has some relevance here. Ewan's a writer of fiction, and is focused on telling a tale, rather than making arguments.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  9. Instography
    Member

    I need to get out more. Half the people entering the #indyref debate, coming out for No or telling of their personal journey to Yes: I have no idea who they are.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  10. Stickman
    Member

    I'm back from a few days respite in Northumberland so have been happily off-grid.

    Is it not all sorted?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  11. stiltskin
    Member

    All done and dusted I'm afraid. Do you want to know the result?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  12. Stickman
    Member

    Thanks, I'll wait and catch the repeat at the weekend.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Scottish Independence Latest Poll: 49% of Voters Trust Salmond vs Only 19% for Cameron

    "

    http://uk.news.yahoo.com/scottish-independence-latest-poll-49-voters-trust-salmond-100726414.html

    Posted 10 years ago #
  14. Min
    Member

    NUJ Scotland @NUJScotland
    Just for clarification- the journalists considering police action - not from BBC. Physical violence threats were against two pro-Yes members

    So some admit to being biased but towards Yes? Curiouser and curiouser.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  15. stiltskin
    Member


    Scottish Independence Latest Poll: 49% of Voters Trust Salmond vs Only 19% for Cameron

    Latest poll? Article 9th Sept, polling 2-4th

    Posted 10 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "
    @ChathamHouse: Chatham House-YouGov poll suggests Scots see positives in EU where English see only negatives. #indyref

    "

    http://t.co/JgoGUJfoXV

    Posted 10 years ago #
  17. crowriver
    Member

    So some admit to being biased but towards Yes? Curiouser and curiouser.

    That's press rules for "newspapers". For the BBC, it works differently: if you're biased towards No, you pretend to be impartial and repeat that assertion until you're blue in the face despite evidence to the contrary.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    More on media bias:

    "David Patrick: Bought and Sold or Hype in Bold? Newspaper Framing of the Scottish Independence Debate"

    September 15 2014

    http://bit.ly/1qVjbtg

    Posted 10 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    The Independent
    How the rest of the world is revelling in the UK's potential break-up

    http://bit.ly/1sgSI5X

    Posted 10 years ago #
  20. Instography
    Member

    Can you be biased if there's no requirement or expectation of balance, or do you just have a different but legitimate opinion?

    Posted 10 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "
    @adamtimsmith: NEW: Opinium/Daily Telegraph poll on #indyref - Yes 48% / No 52% (excluding undecided). No side still ahead, but only just....

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "

    @KennyFarq: SCOTSMAN-ICM POLL: Of Scots women who intend to vote, one in six has yet to decide if they're Yes or No. #indyref http://t.co/WUdd1bAYSu

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

  25. chdot
    Admin

    "
    "

    How the media shafted the people of Scotland

    George Monbiot

    Journalists in their gilded circles are woefully out of touch with popular sentiment and shamefully slur any desire for change

    "

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/media-shafted-people-scotland-journalists

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #
  26. crowriver
    Member

    Got fed up listening to Brown flanelling and spouting nonsense on the Dimbleby show. Now watching recording of University Challenge as an antidote. Also browsing Twitter found this:

    Posted 10 years ago #
  27. wingpig
    Member

    Brown interview better than Salmond, I'd reckon. Dimblebot being quite soft with Salmond just now.

    Posted 10 years ago #
  28. crowriver
    Member

    Gerry Hassan ‏@GerryHassan
    How many last ditch devo proposals have we had? Last count: Four. Scot party leaders; UK party leaders; Brown timetable; & Vow. #indyref

    Posted 10 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    "

    @AlanRoden: ***NEW POLL***: Survation #indyref poll for the Scottish Daily Mail:

    YES 48% (+1)

    NO 52% (-1) http://t.co/MJr87GJIP1

    "

    Posted 10 years ago #
  30. crowriver
    Member

    Somebody was asking earlier in the thread if there was any proof of the fears being stoked in foreign nationals living in Scotland that they would have to leave. This was something I had heard parents telling me at my children's school.

    Here's a story in the Sunday Herald about this:

    Polish workers 'told by No activists: you would have to leave an indy Scotland'

    Helen McArdle
    News Reporter
    Sunday 7 September 2014

    http://bit.ly/1nE1rxz

    Posted 10 years ago #

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