I hope they are going to resurface before they put in the cycle lanes or it will be a poor surface to cycle on.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Public Consultation Meadow Place Road/Broomhouse Road
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Posted 9 years ago #
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"Progress" (if that's what you call magic paint cycle lanes and wide central pinch-points) has reached turn off for Wester Broom Avenue.
It looks like a new surface, but in the usual CEC red invisichips.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Meadow Place Road or Pinch Point Drive? by HankChief, on FlickrIf you look carefully you can just make out the red chips for a cycle lane... but don't worry they only resurfaced (and therefore red chipped) about 100 yards.
We now have about 10 pinch points between Tesco's and Broomhouse RAB.
It is just about wide enough that a well behaved vehicle could pass you with enough room at the pinch point, but you run the risk that they will be close up to the (non existent) line. My current riding style is to take a very wide primary to prevent this - they then have to do a brisk overtake before you repeat the charade at the next pinch point. What fun.
What is really disappointing is that CEC didn't take the opportunity to also put in a odropped kerb on the path between the Toucan crossing and the High School. I pointed this out at consultation but to no avail
Forrester HS - Why no dropped kerb? by HankChief, on FlickrPosted 9 years ago # -
If you look carefully you can just make out the red chips for a cycle lane... but don't worry they only resurfaced (and therefore red chipped) about 100 yards
They have now redchipped the North bound cycle lane - I assume the Southbound will be done shortly.
The white line is really needed to give clarity to the bike lane.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Looks like they have finished the Southern end of Meadow Place Road
Meadow Place Road by HankChief, on Flickr
Meadow Place Road by HankChief, on FlickrI know that the changes were done to benefit pedestrians rather than cyclists and whilst the cycle lanes does look nice and shiny, I can't say that I like using them.
They are 1.5m wide, but the first 55cm is taken up with double yellow lines and the last 10cm by the white lines. So you only get 85cm to ride in - which is less than ideal.
As a daft question - why can the 10cm wide white paint not be outside of the 150cm wide cycle lane. The red chip extends to 150cm but is then covered up with the white paint.
Cycle lane by HankChief, on FlickrBut my main problem lies with the many pinch points which the marking make it look like both a cycle and vehicle can get through together, in reality unless they are right over it will always be close pass - so it depends on whether you want to take that risk.
Taking the kids to swimming, I don't, so I've taken to riding outside the white lines at the pinch points, but then there is such short distances between them it is hard for vehicles to overtake before the next pinch point.
Oh and it doesn't look like they are going to drop the kerb between the toucan crossing and the school...
Forrester HS - Why no dropped kerb? by HankChief, on Flickr
Posted 9 years ago # -
"why can the 10cm wide white paint not be outside of the 150cm wide cycle lane"
Quite
Posted 9 years ago # -
Yes, I drove down here today and was doing a running commentary in my head about how bad this was. The "cycle lane" is very narrow.
I fear that drivers will now be more aggressive towards cyclists: "there's a cycle lane, why aren't you using it?"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Just reread my response to the consultation which included this section:
Firtly, I'd like to say that I welcome proposals to improve the cycling infrastructure in the West of Edinburgh.
However, of the roads I cycle in West Edinburgh, Meadow Place Road is already one of the better ones given it's width and not having parked cars on it. This allows vehicles to give cyclists a wide berth when overtaking and means there aren't pinch points on it that put cyclists and vehicles into conflict. Personally, I feel safe taking my children by bike on this road on the way to Forrester's High school, something I wouldn't do on the other main roads around here.
Also, I find the railings next to the side of the road intimidating to cycle next to, resulting in me riding further out from the curb, to avoid any potential for catching it inadvertently. This means that I would be riding on the edge or outside of the 1.5m wide cycle path, rather than in it. The central reservation will mean that vehicles will be driving closer to me as they won't have the option to go onto the other carriageway to gain extra space.
This all makes me wonder if the money would be better spent on other roads, St John's Road for instance.
I'm now questioning if I still feel safe to cycle on it with kids. It takes a lot of strong positioning / signalling to manage the traffic around you.
Why oh why didn't CEC take up the sustrans plans & offer of money?
I've also checked the 20mph plans which show that Meadow Place Road (from Tescos south to the railway bridge) will remain a 30mph road and Broomhouse Road (railway bridge past Forresters HS to the Broomhouse RAB) will remain part time 20mph.
(I've continued to get confused between Meadow Place Road and Broomhouse Road but I think I've got it now).
Posted 9 years ago # -
That all sounds seriously inadequate hankchief. Hope you'll be writing to councillors and community council. Not to mention cycling officers.
Or perhaps a blogpost? If only the EEN would have interest in 'this sort of scandal.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Will do.
Annoying that it is a nice wide road and could have been so much better.
I'll also point out the limitations with the alternative routes for me which have steps, impassable chicanes or lacking dropped kerbs which I'm still waiting to be sorted. <sigh>
Posted 9 years ago # -
So, the pedestrian "refuges" are new?
How many?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I think we are now at 9 or 10 in the 0.8miles between Tescos and the Broomhouse RAB.
There used to be 1.
Good for pedestrians though.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I'm not totally convinced that those 'refuges' offer pedestrians much. All they do is suggest to me that the road really doesn't need to be that wide.
Would love to see some data on how much they're used.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Good for pedestrians though."
Zebras would be better for 'everyone'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
So, I've now ridden it again solo and driven it in both directions.
There are now 8 refuges.
On my faster bike the speed differential to traffic is much less and there seemed to be more of a willingness to wait for me to pass a refuge before overtaking. Although traffic was also lighter not just because I was taking less time to travel along it.
I was still riding out by the edge of the white line but at 20mph I was riding in a straighter line. The barriers did freak me out from riding closer in.
Driving it, I was taken with the delineation of the road space. It felt very much like I'm in my lane, bikes are in theirs and we'll all get along just fine - almost as if there was an uncrossable dividing line. But looking at buses that take up all of the 'vehicle' lane and other drivers unable to keep their side of the line it wasn't obvious that everyone felt the same way - and thus certainly doesn't allow for wobbly cyclists.
Really disappointed that all this was fed into the consultation together with other ideas to enhance the connectivity but it has just been ignored.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Seems like a clear case where they went in with preconceived notions of what 'ought' to be done. Led by a 'neighbourhood them' I presume?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Think so. When I first flagged it I was told it was a local scheme (to benefit pedestrians). Shows we have a way to go to get all parts of CEC knowing what good looks like.
I'm interested to know how or why they didn't rethink after the consultation.
Posted 9 years ago # -
doubtless their budget was already set - they'd have a ballpark idea of what x number of traffic islands would cost. so anything beyond that wasn't on. presumaby consultation was over 'where' to put them, not 'what'.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I cycled along this afternoon (not much traffic).
Don't like red chips, or narrow cyclelanes, or "refuges", but I do wonder if they will lead to reduced speeds, which might make things better.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@srd - maybe, but a couple of extra dropped kerbs could have been put in and not noticed in the bigger budget.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Following on from the post on the bad driving thread of a 4x4 taking out part of the barriers on Broomhouse Road, it now looks like someone official has removed a good 100m of barriers.
Barrier removal by HankChief, on FlickrHopefully they won't stop here and will take out the rest - I hate cycling next to them.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Agreed - no-one wants to be pushed into a cheese-grater if the vehicle next to them veers left.
Barriers of this type are simply an admission that the vehicle speed limit is too high when considering other humans in the vicinity.
I like how you've captured the part-time 20-mph sign in the pic. I'll offer a cash prize for anyone offering evidence of a car willingly doing 20mph near that school.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Bad news...
The old barriers are being taken out to be replaced with new (lower) barriers.
Aparently it is the parents at the school that are demanding the barriers - although they may be taken away from the opposite side of the road (and not just by careless 4x4s).
Oh and the cycle lanes and refuges have already reduced the speed on the road so are working?!
Posted 9 years ago # -
"new (lower) barriers"
and the point is?
Posted 9 years ago # -
Dunno - make the children look venerable to slow the traffic down whilst simultaneously coraling said children behind it for 'safety' from the mighty car.
How high can a school child hurdle?
Posted 9 years ago # -
When they install barriers now, they install them ~50cm back from the curb edge, to protect the barriers from vehicles (or more likely, to protect vehicles being driven too close to the barriers from getting damaged). So that does give the cyclists a tiny amount of extra squish-room but it also narrows the pavement down.
How are schools like Craigmount, Boroughmuir, James Gillespies etc. getting on without barriers?
Posted 9 years ago # -
The new barriers on the West (school) side have gone on in and don't look lower to me.
Some of the barriers on the East side have been removed and it looks like the pavement is being resurfaced to fill in the holes left by the barrier.
Still work in progress so stay tuned for the next thrilling installment...
Posted 9 years ago #
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