At the new pavement build-out by the new Sainsbury's 'Local'. The westbound carriageway now gets really narrow at that point, particularly if there are cars queuing to turn right into Fountainpark (centre lane).
Only option is primary.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
New pinch point Dundee St/Fountainbridge
(41 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
-
Can now access the canal towpath via Gibson Crescent on the left - handy for those coming up the underpass towards Tollcross etc.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I noticed this on Sunday. Reminds me of the Missoni squeeze point.
Maybe they're going to build bike racks out the front? Maybe they'll just leave it blank for pavement parking?
Good advice Diarmid about cut through to canal there.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Not helped in the morning by the Sainsbury's truck making their deliveries to the store and having to double-park there
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've noticed this too. I've also noticed that the central lane appears to be a "suicide" lane - as in a central lane that can be used by traffic in either direction if it is clear to do so. From the way it is marked it seems perfectly legal to enter from either direction to turn into Fountainpark or into Gibson Terrace.
I rode up Gibson Terrace the other evening to explore access to the canal. I noticed that cleverly the designers of the student housing have arranged a one-way system meaning that you have to ride against the flow of traffic (actually there was none) to get onto the path at the top. A bit daft and I reckon it's probably a private road so not sure if it's illegal or not to cycle along it the "wrong" way, but there's no alternative route I can see.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@kaputnik Indeed - there was previously no reason for eastbound traffic to use that central lane, so the lack of markings wasn't an issue. But now, traffic for Gibson Terrace is going to want to use it - think we'll file the lack of road markings plus pinch point under 'accident waiting to happen'.
(Cross referenced under 'road designer left brain in jar')
Posted 10 years ago # -
Well this looks ripe for conflict and possibly disaster.
Sadly we need a new filing cabinet, and we've also run out of brain jars.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I have filed this to Clarence under "here's another half-baked, part-implemented bit of work I'm pointing out to you that your own "quality control" people haven't picked up on yet"
Posted 10 years ago # -
Businesses need to have parking for all the passing trade. I mean how would Sainsbury's survive without people being able to park outside & nip in for their groceries:
</sarcasm>
Even got the hazards on to draw attention to the fact (s)he is parked dangerously!
HG10BLV
Posted 10 years ago # -
The tesco back by canal basin generates exactly same set of pavement/lane/parking issues.
Posted 10 years ago # -
pretty much every one of the zillion or so Tesco / Sainsbury mini-markets that have appeared in town have encouraged this sort of "just popping in, I'll leave the flashers on" sort of behaviour. Oh, and the parking of HGVs right outside at all times of day and night for loading and unloading.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"Can now access the canal towpath via Gibson Crescent on the left - handy for those coming up the underpass towards Tollcross etc."
With all the previous mentions of 'new access to canal' I had assumed it was at end of Murdoch Terrace!
Not even at end of Gibson!
I got here after going the wrong way along a new one-way street!
Posted 10 years ago # -
The radii of the corners of the pavement build-out outside Sainsbury's have been left very large i.e. they are not tight corners.
This enables cars turning left into Gibson Tce to do so at high speed. Similarly, otherwise-law-abiding
boy racersmotorists can charge out of KiwkFit at high speed, as happened to me as I was taking the photos in the OP! Also, it deflects the pedestrian desire-line to cross Gibson Tce & reduces sightlines, making it more difficult to cross.All of which is contrary to Designing Streets (page 36): http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/03/22120652/6
It seems that no developer, nor CEC, follow the guidance in Designing Streets. Perhaps this is something we should mention in every email to councillors?
Posted 10 years ago # -
so they've created a new one-way street w/out a cycle contra-flow lane? ARGH.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"so they've created a new one-way street w/out a cycle contra-flow lane? "
Yep. I should have taken a photo.
Don't know if it's a 'private road'.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Re. the one-way street...
1. I don't know if this is a private road but, even if it is, surely council standards should be applied when planning permission/ road construction consent is granted to the developer. Could be another of the many examples of the planning and transport sections of the council not working properly together. [speculation, obviously]
2. The council's existing Local Transport Strategy (originally 2007-2012, but extended to now) states...
One-way streets are sometimes used as a traffic management tool. However they can encourage higher traffic speeds (because of less ‘opposing’ traffic) and volumes. There is usually no reason to impose one-way restrictions on cyclists, and in several European countries (e.g. Switzerland), cyclists are exempted from all one-way streets.
Policy Cycle 5
There will be a presumption against new one-way streets. However where new one-way streets have to be implemented for general traffic, there will be a presumption in favour of installing contraflow cycle lanes. Where ‘no-entry’ applies for general traffic there will be a presumption to exempt cyclists.Note that the 2014-19 LTS is due to be approved next week, with similar intent on exempting cyclists from one-way restrictions, although different wording.
http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2014/01/edinburgh-local-transport-strategy-2014-19/3. NB - There is often no real need for a contra-flow lane. In many cases a well-signed exemption for cyclists can work fine, or a 2-way street with 'No entry for motor vehicles' at one end of the street. However it seems that none of these solutions have been applied in this case.
Posted 10 years ago # -
All roads in a private development need to be built in accordance with the roads construction consent granted by the Council. These should be in line with Council policies, which should reflect the best practice set out in Designing Streets. I think Edinburgh is currently revising its policies.
The only difference between a private road and a public road is that the council maintains public roads and the relevant landowner maintains private roads.
Posted 10 years ago # -
"These should be in line with Council policies"
As DdF says -
"Could be another of the many examples of the planning and transport sections of the council not working properly together."
Posted 10 years ago # -
"There is often no real need for a contra-flow lane. In many cases a well-signed exemption for cyclists can work fine, or a 2-way street with 'No entry for motor vehicles' at one end of the street. However it seems that none of these solutions have been applied in this case."
I think in practice a sign is more easily ignored to shout at a cyclist for going the 'wrong way' than a clearly defined lane. The driver coming the other way doesn't see a sign exempting the cyclists as well - certainly any contraflow lane I've seen only has the sign exempting cyclists at the point they are entering from what would be the wrong direction. So for anyone coming the other way, without the lane, it looks exactly like the cyclist is going the wrong way.
That said, I had someone swerve their car directly at me on Bread Street to teach me a lesson, and the contraflow there is a ruddy great big bus lane.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Photos of relevant one-way or no-entry signs currently uploading... wonder if there are any plans to introduce cycle permeability at any of the other entrances?
I don't think I saw anything to indicate one-way-ness at the point where you'd join the new road from the canal access point, which might constitute some sort of risk.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Looking east from the canal end of Gibson Terrace:
IMAG1132 by wingpig, on FlickrLooking south-east from the Fountainbridge end of Bainfield Whatever:
IMAG1134 by wingpig, on FlickrLooking north from the canal end of Bainfield Whatever:
IMAG1133 by wingpig, on FlickrFountainbridge or Dundee St:
IMAG1135 by wingpig, on FlickrThere's also the pair of huge gates on Viewforth where there will presumably be some sort of access when the whole thing is finished.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The pavement on Dundee Street in that last photo (or is it Fountainbridge at that point?) has long been used as a car park. Now there's a wide footpath coming down to it I wonder if that will continue to be tolerated.
Posted 10 years ago # -
I'm loving all the cars parked on the pavements in pics 1 & 3 of wingpig also.
Last time I went down the lane in pic 1, there were approx 8 cars parked on the pavement, with 2 of them completely blocking it.
Hopefully, they'll add some yellow lines eventually to discourage, although I'm not banking on it...
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've managed to extract the planning permission that was granted from the bowels of the council planning portal (11/00123/FUL if you're looking for it).
From the drawings, it looks like there's meant to be an additional access point right at the top of Gibson Terrace.
It's still rubbish though.
I've picked out the following from the application's transport statement;
3.2.2 To the west, Gibson Terrace will offer two vehicular and pedestrian access points, approximately 40 metres and 110 metres south of its junction with Dundee Street.
3.2.3 Pedestrian access from the north will be enabled via a shared footway/cycleway to the north-east corner of the Student Residences area which will route to the east of the retail facilities located on Dundee Street and then continue south adjacent to the park towards the Union Canal. This link will provide access to both the Student Residences and the Fountainbridge South development adjacent to the site. This will also provide a direct link between the Union Canal and Dundee Street.
3.2.4 Access from the east (i.e. the Fountainbridge South development) will be enabled via two shared footways/cycleways which are to be routed through the park. Numerous access points will also be enabled into the site from Fountainbridge South from the Union Canal Towpath.3.3 Cycle Facilities
3.3.1 Cycle access into the Student Residences section of the development will be enabled from all aspects. The vehicular access points off Gibson Terrace will also offer access for cyclists.
3.3.2 As highlighted above, cycle access from the north will be enabled via a shared footway/cycleway to the north-east corner of the Student Residences area which will route to the east of the retail facilities located on Dundee Street and then continue south adjacent to the park towards the Union Canal. This link will provide access to both the Student Residences and the Fountainbridge South development adjacent to the site. This will also provide a direct cycle link between the Union Canal and Dundee Street.
3.3.3 Access from the east (i.e. the Fountainbridge South development) will be enabled via two shared footways/cycleways which are to be routed through the park. Numerous access points will also be enabled into the site from the Fountainbridge South site from the Union Canal Towpath. This will provide a direct link into the site from the National Cycle Network (Route 75), which runs along the length of the Union Canal towpath. Surrounding cycle facilities are discussed later within Section 4.
3.3.4 Internal roads and areas of shared space within the site will enable ease of movement for cyclists, and enable access to areas of cycle parking without the need to dismount.
3.3.5 The following cycle parking facilities for each land-use will be provided on site in relation to the CEC minimum standards provided within the CEC document ‘Parking Standards for Development Control’:I also note that there are only 10 parking spaces, all disabled only, for the 770 student residences.
So. In summary.
Yes it looks like you can ride the "wrong" way down the road.
No, there shouldn't be any parking there as they have explicitely said int he application that parking will be only the 10 disabled spaces.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Re: parking, isn't there a great big underground car park just across the street? Of course that's probably too much effort for the average "I'm just popping in" driver.
Posted 10 years ago # -
@crowriver yes of course, but you have to pay. Also, if you ride through there "off peak", you will see Dundee Street is full of cars - I assume people driving to the cinema but refusing to pay charges of car park.
Posted 10 years ago # -
So should we be complaining to our councillors about this one? I'm kind of in the area and go that way sometimes.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Yes kapps I rode through last night at 7 pm heading west. It was one lane west and one lane east because the lane next to the cinema was full of parked cars. Actually, if you park in the carpark and go to the cinema parking is free. It involves a wee footer with your tickets etc so maybe parking on the road is more suitable for some folk?
Any racks outside that sainsburys?
I cycle past three small sainsburys from west port then Lothian road then this one at viewforth. Only one Tesco on that route. None of them sell the right paneer and only the Tesco sells Weetos and green apples.
None of them have bike racks
Posted 10 years ago # -
Started a new thread for canal access discussion -
Posted 10 years ago # -
Had a look yesterday. Nothing parked at bus stop, but demonstrates questionable 'lanes' -
Posted 10 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
