CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

Groupset upgrade

(16 posts)
  • Started 10 years ago by Kenny
  • Latest reply from crowriver
  • This topic is not resolved

No tags yet.


  1. Kenny
    Member

    I'm planning on upgrading the groupset on my commuter. To prepare for this, I got a 2nd hand road bike, stripped everything off it so I only had the frame, fork and bars, and then attached the new Tiagra groupset that I bought to it, to make sure I (a) had the right tools for everything and (b) knew how to install everything.

    So, I finished it off today, and the next step is therefore to strip all of the groupset off the 2nd hand bike, and install it on my commuter. To do this, I would prefer to do it in stages, rather than all at once, not least because I don't have unlimited time. I'm therefore considering how I could do this, and I figure I can do it in two sittings:

    1. BB, crankset, front mech and one STI
    2. Rear mech, cassette, chain and the other STI

    (I already upgraded my brake callipers)

    The old groupset has a triple crankset and 8 speed cassette; the new one has double crankset and 10 speed cassette.

    The only down side I can think of with the above two step plan is that I will then be cycling around with "odd" STI levers for (say) a week or two, until I do the 2nd set of stuff. Aside from that, though, there's no other drawback to doing this, is there? I mean, it'll work, right?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. wingpig
    Member

    Might be some rubbing of the wider chain around the narrower chainrings.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. Kenny
    Member

    Do chainrings come only able to deal with certain sizes of chain? I know you need narrower chains for cassettes greater than 8, but I hadn't realised chainrings then need to be different to handle that? I now wonder whether I've ordered the right thing.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. wingpig
    Member

    The spacing between ten-speed chainrings is a bit less than between eight-speed and the rings are a bit narrower, but hopefully not critically so for a week or two.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. gembo
    Member

    I have almighty skipping on my 9 spd with narrower chain at moment. And they both match so my advice is as useful as toffee but I would get a chain that matches the chainrings?

    I have had some bad jamming of the chain going into the granny causing me to come to a halt.

    I had been hoping to get through the winter before getting new chain and cassette but Lo the winter is only just begun

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. Kenny
    Member

    Can I just confirm we're talking about the same thing? My understanding is that the spacing between 10-speed cassettes is less than between 8-speed cassettes. I'm unaware, and am unable to find, information suggesting the same is true of chainrings?

    The spec for the chainring I am going to install, FC-4600, is here:

    http://si.shimano.com/php/download.php?file=pdf/um/SI-1MG0A-001-ENG.pdf

    But I can't see any reference in there to it only working with specific cassette sizes?

    I'm certainly going to get a chain that matches the cassette, which I believe is the relevant thing, and they will both happen in part 2 of my set of work.

    Mind you, this might all turn out to be irrelevant if I get on with it efficiently and manage to do the whole lot in one morning.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. gembo
    Member

    Sorry, yes chain to match cassette, chainrings not normally as big a deal, tho I have never tried the chain on my bike with two chain rings on my bikes with three chain rings, or have I swapped a chain from a hybrid to a road bike or vice versa.

    I know form Matt who fixes my bikes that he has taken a file to the chainrings before rather than change both cassette and chain

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. Kenny
    Member

    OK; well, it's good to know that it could be a potential problem, so I shall be aware of that. Thanks for the tip.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. allebong
    Member

    I've been researching this very thing recently and have luckily come across loads of advice, which unluckily all conflicts with itself.

    The manufacturers naturally warn you to always match speeds on everything. 8 speed chain on 10 speed chainring or cassette would according to them and some others lead to severe damage and skipping/jamming under load.

    Word on various forums and some bike shops is that you can mix and match up to one speed difference. 9 speed chain on 8 speed cassette okay, 10 speed chain on 9 speed ring, okay, but 8 speed on 10 speed might be pushing it. Better to go lower speed chain (wider links) on a higher speed ring (narrow teeth) than the other way round.

    Then some say the whole speed categorisation is a gigantic scam by the manufacturers and they've known somebody who ran a 5 speed chain on a 11 speed cassette and a 9 speed chainring with a 10 speed shifter and it was fine.

    If it's a temporary thing I'd just go for it and be careful. If there's a severe problem with rubbing/jamming/slipping you're sure to notice it quickly and avoid any bad damage.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. Kenny
    Member

    Conflicting advice? Aye, I've seen plenty of that too - life would be too simple without it!

    I'm still struggling to see any chainring that identifies itself as being used with an 8/9/10/11 cassette or chain. I've had a good look on Wiggle just now and the chainrings seem to merely tell you how many teeth they have, rather than "this must be used with a 10 speed cassette". I'm starting to think I'm missing the obvious here; that there's something in the description which means "use this with a 10 speed cassette" but is in coded language, which I'm not parsing?

    I'm definitely going to use the 8 speed chain with the 8 speed cassette, and then when I change to the 10 speed cassette, I'll immediately use the 10 speed chain, although it is interesting to hear that it's possible that's a scam too.

    [ later ]

    No, scratch that, I found one:

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-130-pcd-105-5600-10-speed-inner-chainring/

    OK, duly noted, I think I will indeed go for the "see what happens" route. Or maybe I will make a super-early start and try to get it all done in one day, so I can give it a good test the next day before the weekly commute.

    [ even later ]

    Oh goodness, I'm finding such evidence everywhere now. I think going for a swim has improved my reading ability.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. allebong
    Member

    If you have a wee gander through CRC Chainrings some of them are specific speeds, and inevitably include a warning that they are only for use with XYZ patented trademarked chainlinking technology. Meanwhile plenty others are just chainrings with as you say nothing about speed compatibility at all.

    I've noticed that the unmarked ones all tend to be lower end, while the speed specific rings are higher end (SLX, XT etc). Probably reflects the fact that the current state of the art is 10/11 speed, so those expensive rings have to make a point of being compatible. Meanwhile the lower end ones are relegated to serving 'obsolete' 8 and 9 speed systems without these compatibility headaches.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Snowy
    Member

    I'm very far from being an experienced mechanic, but so as long as your chain has space in the links for the chainring teeth, I don't think there would be an issue. In other words, use a 'lower' speed chain on a 'higher' speed ring. E.g. 8/9/10 chain probably fine on an '11 speed chainring'.

    If it's a big difference eg 8 on an 11 then I still wouldn't be worried about it shifting, but you might see some increased wear.

    Intuitively it feels like the tighter tolerances of 11-speed might lead to some justifiable compatibility recommendations, but if your just talking 8/9 or even 10 speed, I don't think it will matter much.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. Dave
    Member

    I doubt there would be any issue running 8 speed chain on a 10 speed chainset, the only thing is that if your chain is worn, it will eat into the new rings at a faster rate (but for a week or two, hardly an issue).

    http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html is always reassuring for these sorts of things.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Let me see I have "9 speed" 105 crankset spinning around an Ultegra BB mixed with a 9 speed Sora rear derailleur, a Tiagra front derailleur with an 8 speed cassette and chain, mismatched (A/B type) Shimano chainrings and old 8 speed Sora shifters on newish 105 brake calipers. And it all works.

    Go for it!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. Kenny
    Member

    Well, I finally went for it. I left it until I had a week off work so that I could then spend that week fixing things that didn't go according to plan. However, as it transpired, I started it mid-afternoon on Saturday, and it was done sometime on the Sunday. Total time spent probably less than 4 hours, 1 of which was spent trying to remove the old cassette.

    Went for a spin on it this afternoon to see what would fall off, but so far, all seems to be in order.

    And what a difference! Going from 8 gears up to 20 is amazing. I had only 8 because my previous crankset was a triple but the front mech was useless and refused to go in to the big ring no matter how I adjusted it, and I never used the granny ring. Now I have 2 (count them!) chainrings (53/39) and a 12/30 cassette gives me a ridiculous range of gears. Going 24mph without my feet spinning round at a cadence of >100 was quite a nice feeling.

    The biggest issues I had were removing the old kit. Gear cables stuck in barrel adjusters and the usual scenario of not being able to get the old cassette off. However, putting the new stuff back on was much easier. I should do it more often.

    Therefore, since I did it all at once, I didn't have to worry / concern myself with running the old rear mech and chain with the new crankset. Just whacked it all on at once.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. crowriver
    Member

    Devil's advocate here, but why don't you just ride the upgraded second hand road bike instead? ;-)

    Posted 10 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin