CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
I started writing this "close, but no cigar" in response to the older topic about muddy paths and whether or not they should be brought up to standard (at the expense of horse riders and mud-lovers).
It took me so long to get around to uploading the video that I may as well post the article separately.
I agree with Dave.
very rare sentence thought it deserved its own line ;)
I wonder if its a matter of population density, while there are plenty of people up the A70 corridor its nothing like as populous as the centre of town, so whilst its low hanging fruit its perhaps just not ripe enough yet.
whilst its low hanging fruit its perhaps just not ripe enough yet
Spot who's been on the management speak masterclass!
That depends on the definition of "up to standard".
Donkey Lane is a nice fast, dry scoot on a cyclocross bike in good weather, and I used to commute down it on 28mm Gatorskins too.
I'm against the tarmacing and sanitisation of the whole countryside, but some improved drainage would not go amiss.
The Water of Leith between Lanark Road and Gorgie Road is (IMHO) a good example - drains relatively well but doesn't feel too man made (although that bridge in the middle is another matter - I've had two offs there in 2013 despite being cautious).
Yes to drainage and senstive surface improvements, no to tarmacing everything to a road bike standard!
I'd be nervous of CEC using appropriate surface materials though. I'm sure the Water of Leith at Colinton Dell is mushier with the new surface than it was with the old one.
"I'd be nervous of CEC using appropriate surface materials though. I'm sure the Water of Leith at Colinton Dell is mushier with the new surface than it was with the old one."
"Appropriate" depends on location, installation, drainage and maintenance - not forgetting drainage...
Depends which old and new you are comparing. There was a major resurfacing a few years ago and (I think) some additional dusting.
I tend to avoid the path when I get the impression (usually from posts on here) that it's got 'boggy' again.
Which obviously should 'never' be an issue.
The materials/surface is part of the problem, but dealing with the annual leaf fall and mud flows is also crucial.
I'm against the tarmacing and sanitisation of the whole countryside, but some improved drainage would not go amiss.
This isn't country side! The WOL path is industrial brownfield and old railway line no different from the NEPN, there is more "rural" if you want to go on the other side of the path or the Pentlands are only 20 minutes from the start of the path at Lonstone.
Donkey Lane might be a different story but I've never used it so can't comment to that, I'd still hesitate to call anything in Balerno countryside. A muddy path behind some houses you can't see for shrubbery does not wild country make.
This isn't country side
I'd second that - we have to be clear of the distinction between "the countryside" and a former railway through leafy but ultimately a largely brownfield and residential location that is in the the second largest city in the country.
One of the problems that I (imagine) you face with a non-sealed surface is that it's not possible to use sweeping equipment down them, lest you sweep the top of the surface away too. This is a problem where you're in a damp, leafy gorge where the path is always going to end up covered in lots of smush every autumn.
The Colinton bit was briefly nice in 2011 when most of the fines had been leached out of the relatively-fresh dust and it drained properly, often making it not more trouble than it was worth to ride over as few as two days after heavy rain.
Tarmaccing the entire thing is unnecessary but it ought to be acceptable to most to properly sort out and permanently surface a few small key habitual puddle-sites, particularly where the ground slopes too much for an unsealed 'surface' to stay in place.
Unfortunately, the very act of improving small sections would almost certainly result in deterioration of some surrounding bits through the churning of the huge wheels of the plant required.
Donkey Lane has deteriorated markedly since I first started used it. It's always had its muddy patches but the drainage on the centre section was overwhelmed by flash-flooding a couple of years ago. This exposed the yellow drainage pipes visible in Dave's photos and carved a trench on the path. Things have been getting worse since then at this stretch. I still use it in preference to the WoL walkway in wet weather as it means a short muddy stretch rather than a long muddy stretch(effectively that means six months of the year.)
I have a pile of old paving slabs sitting tucked away in my garden and I have one several occasions toyed with the idea of sticking a couple down on Donkey Lane at the two bad puddle sites as a quick fix. Would help the pedestrians, but not ideal for bikes.
I'm sure that Spokes voluntary workers made a lot of improvements to Donkey Lane in the 80s. Before that it wasn't even passable on foot.
Too bad CEC won't adopt it/maintain it as a path
That depends on the definition of "up to standard".
Donkey Lane is a nice fast, dry scoot on a cyclocross bike in good weather, and I used to commute down it on 28mm Gatorskins too.
I'm against the tarmacing and sanitisation of the whole countryside, but some improved drainage would not go amiss.
"Up to standard" was intended to mean something that, like NEPN, you would actually get the general public using instead of sitting in their cars. Sealed surface with lighting (the solar lights from the canal would be fine for starters).
Of course it's true that people technically /can/ ride it (and we do, sometimes - in fact I often commute on it). But as people have commented above, this is not the countryside. It's brownfield / heavily developed residential terrain.
It's not as if there's such a shortage of outdoors in the Pentlands that we have to keep thoroughfares in Edinburgh unsealed to remind people what mud looks like.
And tough luck if you have a wheelchair :)
"And tough luck if you have a wheelchair :) "
OT, but that reminds me of my Sunday ride when I was coming back to Edinburgh via the John Muir Way. There's a very steep hillock at one point on the otherwise flat route, and I was amazed and amused to see a young lad gamely trying to push (presumably) his mother up the slope in her very sturdy chair. They both seemed to be having fun, thought I wouldn't like to have been in the chair if he let go! The Samaritan in me would have offered to help but a) I would have been no use with road cleats on and b) hubbie was walking ahead of them up the hill so obviously they already had help if they needed it.
Back on-topic, I have no experience of Donkey Lane but it looks exactly the type of surface which really needs a more tyre-friendly covering. If you want to mud-plug, there is plenty of that to be had in the hills and I think most urban or suburban routes should be commutable by any type of bike. I deliberately use the word "routes" to refer to paths which are realistic ways of getting from one location to another as opposed to those which are more "destinations" in themselves. In other words, you could, technically, tarmac a path over the Pentlands in theory but it's more of a place to ride than a route from A to B for the majority of people. An extreme example, but it should explain my definition.
If it weren't for the wishes of other users being different I'd expect tarmacking of the Pencaitland Path, nothing less. Again, to me, it's a route, not a destination.
The Water of Leith between Lanark Road and Gorgie Road is (IMHO) a good example - drains relatively well but doesn't feel too man made
Definitely worth comparing this section to the WoL path at Colinton. The above section is fine even in the wettest conditions as it's hardpack so even when it's covered in puddles it's decent (if messy) to ride. It drains and dries out well too. Never had problems.
Crucially, you don't get that mulchy, sticky, boggy slop you get on the Colinton section. As well as the immense drag, slidiness and dodgy handling it creates what annoys me the most is the sheer filth of it. You don't get dirty water sprayed off the tyres, you get whole chunks of earth thrown about, even the best mudguards just can't seem to keep it off.
I deliberately use the word "routes" to refer to paths which are realistic ways of getting from one location to another as opposed to those which are more "destinations" in themselves.
Makes perfect sense to me. The point at which I'm choosing to cycle on Lanark road instead of the WoL is the point when I stop having any concerns about how 'natural' a surface is.
Every now and then I go for a spin along the eastern end of the Monkland's canal and I remember why I don't like it.
I like the water, ducks and the old civil engineering. I don't like the mud, odd changes in surface and being so near water on a slippery track.
It was a nice thing to do on the morning of Jan 1st but I don't expect to be there again for a few months.
Donkey path was maybe once Donkey Burn? It is certainly a riverbed now.
WoL path from end of Tarmac at colinton is all mud, old mud, new mud. it was very dry spring and summer but recent autumn rain has been precipitating to an excessive degree. Who knows what it will be like come the winter?
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