Why say "everyday clothing" when it would presumably be just as easy (and more helpful for witnesses to know who the police were talking about) to describe what he was wearing, like "a dark green jumper and jeans", a "pinstripe suit", "tweed plus-fours", whatever it was?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Cyclist, aged 78, dies after being hit by car in Edinburgh
(49 posts)-
Posted 10 years ago #
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"Mainstream Media... ...have put us where we are."
Easy to blame the dumb media and quite right. But they would not get far in their victim blaming if none of us had helmets. You read of joggers and pedestrians getting run over but paragraph 2 isn't always the helmet status one. Whether it is or isn't a worthwhile trade-off is a different (well-worn) topic.
Posted 10 years ago # -
If Stricter/presumed liability in Civil Law as per the Road Share campaign was operating as per nearly every other country in Europe, then in this case the driver of the car would "presumed" to be responsible for causing the collision unless he could prove otherwise. This would allow the loved ones of the deceased to immediately pursue a claim for compensation irrespective of any Criminal prosecution which at present seems unlikely given that there don't appear to be any witnesses.
Posted 10 years ago # -
You can support the Road Share Campaign by signing the online petition
Posted 10 years ago # -
Rod - the driver isn't responsible for causing the collision - that's guilt, and should not be assumed
The driver is liable for the outcome being fatal because they were driving a car and that's what strict liability is about.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Wow, the comments on the original EEN story have reached a sickening new low:
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/dead-cyclist-named-as-george-fairley-1-3310233
Posted 10 years ago # -
I've had a go at the EEN on Twitter. Gareth Edwards (@Gedwardsistaken) claims there are no cycling death stories with comments allowed on them, but I've just had to correct him in that the two related to Mr Fairley are still allowing comments. These should be closed shortly.
Apparently if we see any cycling death stories with comments allowed on them from now on, we can tweet him to get them taken off.
(He claims comments are only sometimes accidentally allowed in an 'upload error', but I'm sceptical as they're never accidentally acticated on any other death story)
Posted 10 years ago # -
A mason - perhaps the police and magistrate will be a bit more sympathetic to the deceased than is usually the case?
Posted 10 years ago # -
Nice one 3fromleith. They make a lot of accidents on the gary mccourt/audrey fife/etc threads.
Dave - thats a pretty crass comment.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Sadly, we have a pretty dire judicial system - I think on balance that I may have been overgenerous by limiting myself to 'perhaps', but no doubt we'll see in due course.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Undoubtedly, theres tons of cases where the courts have been too lenient (in our views) on cases such as this. But to pull in tired mason jibes into this is crap. The EEN article has removed the comments now, this was worthy of a comment on that page.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Looks like we'll have to agree to differ, sg37409
Posted 10 years ago # -
Process
"
The 1998 Road Traffic Act, Section 39, puts a Statutory Duty on the local authority to undertake studies into road collisions, and to take steps both to reduce and prevent collisions.
The wording of the act is :
Section 39.(3) “Each local authority -
(a) Must carry out studies into accidents arising out of the use of vehicles on roads or part of roads, other than trunk roads, within their area,
(b) Must in the light of those studies, take such measures as appear to the authority to be appropriate to prevent such accidents.....................
(c) In constructing new roads, must take such measures as appear to the authority to be appropriate to reduce the possibilities of such accidents when the roads come in to use.”The Council discharges its statutory duties under the 1998 Road Traffic Act through the production of the Edinburgh Road Safety Plan. In 2010 the City of Edinburgh Council and its key partners of Lothian and Borders Police, NHS Lothian, and Lothian and Borders Fire and Rescue Service developed the Road Safety Plan (Plan) for Edinburgh to 2020. Streets Ahead, Road Safety in Edinburgh is the resulting partnership formed by these agencies to tackle road safety in the city.
As part of the Plan the Council’s Road Safety Team carries out an investigation in partnership with Police Scotland whenever a fatal collision occurs on our roads. All fatal road collisions are attended by the Police Crash Investigation Unit and an experienced road traffic officer is assigned as the investigating officer. Detailed measurements are made at the locus and witness statements etc are collected. On completion of the investigation the Police will recommend action as appropriate, which in some cases may lead to prosecution.
When the Police investigations are fully completed a site meeting is arranged which will be attended by the investigating Police Officer, Police Traffic Management, the Council’s Road Safety Team, the Local Area Roads Manager and any other persons deemed to be relevant. In the case of a cycle collision the Council’s Cycling Officer will also be invited to attend.
At the meeting the investigating officer will be able to describe the events leading to the crash and the group will be able to analyse the locus to determine if any follow up action is necessary. The crash history and any recent road changes can be considered at this time.
"
Posted 10 years ago # -
Tulyar,
"the driver isn't responsible for causing the collision - that's guilt, and should not be assumed
The driver is liable for the outcome being fatal because they were driving a car and that's what strict liability is about."
Just to clarify.
Guilt relates to criminal law. Stricter liability would be applied only in Civil Law cases for compensation.
The driver would be presumed to be liable for having caused the collision unless he could prove otherwise. This would allow the civil claim to be progressed without having to wait for the outcome of any criminal investigation by the PF/Crown Office. This can sometimes take over a year before detailed information can be made available to the civil lawyers.
Posted 10 years ago # -
Chdot Thanks for setting out the Council position of Section 39. If this is being done then perhaps thay can follow the example of the Rail and Air crash investigations and publish these reports, so that there is a wider and open understanding about the causes of crashes and measures needed to mitigate them. After all Rail operations have achieved 'Vision Zero' by their meticulous work to learn from incidents and prevent crashes - whilst thousands die on the roads.
rodm - read what I wrote and I think we have crossed wires sent DM reply - Check the way your first posting reads, as the shortened message can perhaps be read as "The driver is guilty" especially by someone with an ill-informed preconception on the civil liability concept.
The death occurred because the driver was in a car and therefore had a duty of care in using the car, ie a liability, I did not say he caused the collision, but the use of a car made the outcome fatal.
Posted 10 years ago # -
The wreaths to commemorate the dead cyclist have been laid at the junction of the B800 and the minor road that links to Queen Elizabeth yards / Standingstane Road.
Posted 10 years ago # -
This may be useful - Rhia at CTC/CDF prompted a legal specialist to pen this and it is very well set out.
So if clearly we have crashes happening and no apparent delivery of an investigation or action to deal with the issue, there is a route to follow.
Posted 10 years ago #
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