CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
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@chdot. It's pretty much the same as before, although I think it might be wider now. My 'bizarre' comment was more about the pointlessness of it in comparison to the uphill lane that seems to be missing.
Here's a streeview of the old situation.
The road is nice and smooth, though.
"but not really as much of a problem as nearby Morningside Road"
According to @edintravel there are temporary traffic lights on Morningside Road at the end of Canaan Lane for resurfacing works.
The worst bit of road is just uphill/north of there opposite M&S/Superdrug so I hope that's going to be targetted.
I saw them setting up single lane working on Morningside Road this morning. About 50m of the northbound carriageway was coned off near M&S - think I will avoid it on the way home, as traffic could be grim.
I wonder if they won't take it all down at rush hour? i think this is the new way of getting around provision for pedestrians? if the works are non-continuous?
Also works on Colinton at Gillsland, which is on my honmebound route, so we'll see what happens there...a dreadful intersection at the best of times thanks to the Watsons parents.
"It's now got a bike lane painted on in front of the junction with Balcarres Street Craighouse Gardens."
"This used to go right up the hill, but now stops just south of the junction. A bike lane all the way up the hill (like there used to be) would be nice"
It does now. No extra red bits which may or may not explain this -
"as it would give a bit of space from cars as I toil up at 8mph..."
Think this bike was doing more and didn't want to stop for the stationary grey car - so went in front of the red one!
Just!!!
How interesting - I've encountered that front vehicle a couple of times and it's quite high on my 'rubbish driving' list.
Not a repair as such, but the upper path from Balgreen to Pinkhill is now closed off so it can be surfaced.
I'm looking forward to this one being finished!
Have enjoyed the nice new asphalt at Craighouse Road and Craighouse Gardens.
Re: Pedestrian Crossings being out of action due to roadworks and no replacement provision being made - this seems to be the case at the Buckstone shops. Is there a specific Council policy on this? - I'm just wondering if as SRD hints these works are set up each day so they are non-continuous... but will take several weeks to do! Why is it unacceptable for motorised traffic to have to fend for itself however it is acceptable for pedestrians to have to do so?
Who / what is the best contact method with the Council to report things like this?
I really hate that too. I think council policy is that temporary pedestrian crossings have to be made but not really and so you have to hassle them about it.
Someone's been along Craighouse Road today with a white spray can, marking all the things that are wrong. I assume it's the Council. In two places, the markings say 'red chips' (or similar) where there used to be red paint and now there's nothing. There's also one round a metal fitting that says 'raise', and some other acronyms that I didn't understand.
...so it looks like someone's going to have to come back and fix the things they got wrong the first time...
Policy on replacement crossing is that it should be put in if the obstruction takes more than a certain number of days. I am no longer sure what that number is...
In any event, best thing to do is to email your councillors, nigel bagshawe, and your local 'team' (corresponds to neighbourhood partnership).
Today (so not done in the week since Greenroofer mentioned it) -
Seems 'obvious' that this should be proper red surfacing for visibility/safety reasons.
The existing surface has to be gouged out anyway as black without chips has been acknowledged as a mistake, so how much more expensive would it be to replace it with some form of red asphalt?
This would be longer lasting than a surface coat of red, though that often survives well and even when worn is better than chips!
Lots of choices.
Random example -
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@chdot I used to get stuff on my homework a bit like those spray markings. They said '3/10 See me'...
Are they perhaps waiting for a new road closure to be signed off.
At the moment, the bike lane is OK because it's still brilliant white, but when the lane markings have started to wear off it's going to be pretty useless. The red chips on the first bit really aren't visible even in daylight. On a wet night they will be hopeless.
"The red chips on the first bit really aren't visible even in daylight. On a wet night they will be hopeless"
True!
News just in -
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Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns)
25/03/2014 20:30
@CyclingEdin @south_team @adamrmcvey @LAHinds Will pursue an update on this specific location tomorrow, Andrew.
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Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns)
05/04/2014 22:14
@CyclingEdin @south_team @adamrmcvey @LAHinds @SpokesLothian @melaniemain @PaulGodzik Yes - have a reply, will e-mail it as soon as feasible
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You can see the red chips in the photo but obviously will wear off, however so does the bike lane paint because cars drive in the lanes, park in the lanes etc. when the red chip Tarmac goes in it is good surface and may be Tarmac that stands up better to cars. However, what is needed is the removal of cars from cycle lanes, IMO
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Hart's Cyclery (@harts_cyclery)
06/04/2014 00:12
@CyclingEdin serious q: why obsession with red paint over chips? Trivial in grand scheme of lack of infra on main rds @AndrewDBurns @LAHinds
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Cycling Edinburgh (@CyclingEdin)
06/04/2014 10:10
@harts_cyclery - symptomatic of 'cost saving over safety' and makes chances of 'proper' infrastructure more remote
@AndrewDBurns @LAHinds
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Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
06/04/2014 12:08
.@harts_cyclery Need seg infra on main rds where poss; colour elsewhere https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/rolling-out-a-red-carpet-for-cyclists/ @CyclingEdin @LAHinds
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If you're going to use red chips, you need to do it properly. Here are some experts doing it properly. Watch and learn...
(...and, if you're an Edinburgh cyclist, be really quite jealous.)
http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->
| [+] Embed the video | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE4KOZzQOg" target="_blank">Video Download | Get the Flash Video |
And another thing...
Surely the cost of resurfacing a road is in the scalping, the labour the plant and so on. Yes sure red tarmac costs more, but in the grand scheme of the total cost of redoing a road is it really that much more.
So on the Craighouse Road/Balcarres Street Craighouse Gardens work, how much more would it really have cost to put in red tarmac rather than just red chips.
"So on the Craighouse Road/Balcarres Street Craighouse Gardens work, how much more would it really have cost to put in red tarmac rather than just red chips."
Well quite.
One problem is that most bike and bus lanes are laid down as an extra coat and have to be relatively thin. If the road surface isn't prepared well there is the extra chance that it will come off in lumps even before it 'wears out'.
BUT the real problem is that fixing such things would come out of the revenue budget - which is never big enough to deal with all the repairs.
So things get worse until it's time to redo the whole road (capital budget).
"Surely the cost of resurfacing a road is in the scalping, the labour the plant and so on. Yes sure red tarmac costs more, but in the grand scheme of the total cost of redoing a road is it really that much more."
Well exactly. Makes you wonder about 'accounting methods'.
Of course inconvenience and danger only make it onto the 'balance sheet' in extreme circumstances - even then it will be someone else's balance sheet...
Poor surfaces (etc.) put people off cycling, so there are more vehicle trips which wear out the road quicker...
Especially at junctions where vehicles have to cross cycle lanes and are usually accelerating so likely to wear out that section faster!
@chdot. We violently agree, I feel. When you are designating an existing road as a bike lane you have to put a thin surface coating down because it's the cost-effective option that you can do without digging up the road.
However, as soon as you start digging up the existing road surface to put the red chips down, then surely it's not that much more expensive to do proper red tarmac.
I like the way in the video how there's a chap with a special wooden measurer thing to make sure that the bike lane is exactly the right width.
well, it is possible to move the debate on from thermoplastic v chips to whole-hearted support for red tarmac?
Actually I don't mind either thermoplastic or red tarmac. It's just the red chips I object to!
The first two are OK from the day they are laid. The thermoplastic deteriorates and needs to be replaced every so often. The tarmac presumably doesn't.
Red chips are pretty hopeless from Day 1. They are a little better than nothing, but not much.
Is it possible to move the debate on from the colour of the road surface to how do we adopt the Sustainable Safety approach, rather than just a superficial copy of it?
The official view -
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CRAIGHOUSE ROAD CYCLE LANE
Thank you for your e-mail dated 27 March 2014 regarding the above facility.
The Council’s approach to the highlighting of cycle lanes is to use red chips within the carriageway material. This approach was agreed at the 15 January 2013 Transport and Environment Committee and was adopted for several reasons:
a. Whole-life costs of chips were assessed to be lower than the cost of applied material. Chips are used as standard in carriageway surfacing and the additional cost of red coloured chips is minimal. In contrast applied material requires a separate process and also renewal several times during the life of the main carriageway material.
b. Cycle lanes marked with thermoplastic were deteriorating unevenly and relatively rapidly. After a period of around five years many lanes were significantly losing conspicuity and were becoming visually very untidy. Any carriageway repairs, including around public utility works, required an additional process to reinstate the thermoplastic. When such repairs were carried out the visual effect was very patchy and unsatisfactory.
c. The visual effect of red thermoplastic when new was considered to be unsatisfactory for widespread application in the world heritage site and conservation areas.
Notwithstanding the above, we retain the option of using thermoplastic or other applied materials as a specialised treatment in exceptional circumstances. With regard to the use of coloured tarmac at this location it would be technically difficult and expensive to implement here. The Local Roads Manager is currently considering the best option to complete the work and will provide you with an update when a decision has been made.
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