CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

whinging Cramond Brig locals

(27 posts)

  1. DaveC
    Member

    On the path through Cramond Brig lastnight (11th Mar 2014) we were warned about a lady with a dog, ahead. We saw three cyclists coming the other way (including the warner) and then two more as we passed over the bridge and one more further up the hill towards Dalmeny.

    At the brig a contractor is repointing the bridge underneath. A woman was quite loudly complaining about cyclists cycling past and how ignorant we are. The access the the bridge on the south side is restricted in width as plant is occupying some of the access to the bridge and their plant machinary is fenced in. She was stood at the narrowest part with her dog (a B/W collie loose wondering round and - trying to stay close to its owner, but avoid cyclists passing both ways.

    Strikes me that she is the ignorant one leaving the poor animal to look after its self whilst cyclists pass by. Its always been a pinch point but the workers have narrowed the point.

    I do wonder why these people chose to ove there with a busy cycle way right outside their door?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. steveo
    Member

    How would you feel if thousands of noisy, heavy bikes were clattering past your house at all hours!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. DaveC
    Member

    Better than speeding cars which I currently have. But then I knew the main road was outside my house when I moved in so just ignore it.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    "I knew the main road was outside my house when I moved in"

    Suspect women at Cramond was there before cycling became 'popular'.

    Sounds a bit Queen Canute-ish - and not a responsible dog owner!

    I'm sure some cyclists don't take enough care there.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. minus six
    Member

    Always get the impression that dog walkers on Brae Park Road imagine its a private road, and so they have every right to let their dogs wander about off the leash.

    The ignorance is on their part -- both ends of this road have a steep brae culminating in a blind turn -- which makes it very difficult for cyclists to anticipate and negotiate sudden hazards, like wandering collie dogs.

    There'a a sense of entitlement around there that brooks no argument. They are certain of their righteousness.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. amir
    Member

    "There'a a sense of entitlement around there that brooks no argument. They are certain of their righteousness."

    A common trait not restricted to above example.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. Stickman
    Member

    Devil's Advocate:

    I've seen cyclists flying down the hill from Dalmeny at high speed with no real attempt to brake (including what was clearly a large cycling club outing), so I can understand her frustration.

    There are no separate markings on the path for cyclists/pedestrians so I think the onus is on cyclists to look out for the more vulnerable pedestrians.

    And Brae Park is a quiet non-through road (for vehicles at least) with no pavements - again the responsibility should be with cars/bikes to drive/ride at an appropriate speed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. PS
    Member

    Live and let live. It's not a great road for cycling fast on - awful surface on both descents and blind corners - and we all know its popularity with peds and dogwalkers. Everyone should take care (which is not to say proceed at snails' pace, because with a bit of attention you can anticipate issues).

    Can't we all just get along?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. acsimpson
    Member

    I'd certainly agree that the brig is not a place to be going fast. At the same time however surely dog walker have a responsibility to ensure their dog isn't in harms way.

    With regards to braking while coming down from Dalmeny sometimes an "attempt to brake" is all that can be done while bouncing through the potholes.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. minus six
    Member

    With regards to braking while coming down from Dalmeny sometimes an "attempt to brake" is all that can be done while bouncing through the potholes

    Yep, that's definitely the situation, even with a decent pair of salmon kool stops.

    Steep brae down to the old brig while braking hard over the potholes, go wide while still braking to avoid the selfish old guy's parked car, quick left again to get position over the narrow brig, steep turn left then slalom slow past the dogs.

    Of course if you encounter dogs anywhere *before* crossing the brig, then its a nightmare.

    Mostly i take the Queensferry Road into town instead.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. minus six
    Member

    Live and let live

    Can't we all just get along?

    You'd have a slightly different opinion if you used this particular section twice a day all year round, i'll warrant

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. Coxy
    Member

    Who's this?

    https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=brae+park+road+edinburgh&ll=55.965368,-3.315125&spn=0.000024,0.020792&hnear=Braepark+Rd&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=55.965364,-3.31513&panoid=aRr5MMAk49qFAWJdh1xYeA&cbp=12,40.74,,0,8.23

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. minus six
    Member

    Ha! if you follow google streetview round to the brig, you'll see selfish old guy's car parked at the other end, right at the foot of the steep section.

    Polite and reasonable doesn't cut it with him, he thinks he's Chuck Norris. Comical.

    I can see things from his point of view, sure -- cyclists nipping down that hill, he thinks they are the selfish ones, but he just doesn't get it. The only way to go any slower is to get off and walk back at the top of the brae.

    There's clearly conflict here among road users, that needs to be addressed by improved infrastructure. The trouble is there aren't quite enough cyclists using this route for change to be obviously required. Meanwhile its easier for the majority to just claim anti-social speeding cyclists are the problem.

    Hence the cops at the brig last autumn stopping cyclists, responding to local community issues.

    Its tiresome and predictable.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. acsimpson
    Member

    To be fair to Chuck Norris if the road resembled tarmac at that point his car wouldn't be an issue it would just be a case of smoothly gliding past it which applying a reasonable amount of braking force.

    @Coxy, no idea who it is but I wonder why the ninja car in the foreground didn't manage to conceal it's aerial.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. minus six
    Member

    if the road resembled tarmac at that point his car wouldn't be an issue it would just be a case of smoothly gliding past it which applying a reasonable amount of braking force

    that would work _if_ there's no oncoming dog walker

    but if he parked sensibly in the recess across the road, then there would be room for bike and dog walker

    truth is, chuck doesn't live in a world where there's a national cycle route NCN1 on his doorstep

    he lives in a world where there's no room for cyclists at all

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. Baldcyclist
    Member

    In fairness, he's just parking his car outside his house. Imagine I would do so to if I lived there.

    Plently of room to get past, the road does need re-surfaced though.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. minus six
    Member

    He has options though, baldcyclist.

    He doesn't need to be parked just round a blind corner at the foot of a very steep short brae.

    You know its there, I know its there, but plenty tourers don't, and face a white knuckle braking scenario.

    Chuck don't care, he doesn't even move it when Pedal for Scotland is on...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    You'd have a slightly different opinion if you used this particular section twice a day all year round, i'll warrant

    But what can you do about it? He exists, the dog walkers exist. There are blind corners. Queensferry Road is a better bet if you're wanting to go flat out.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. Instography
    Member

    I've never found that bit to be a problem. Take it slowly, wide round the corners and be prepared to stop. There's no need for anyone to be facing a white knuckle braking scenario because the clues are all there - you can't see what's round the corner.

    Let's imagine the scenario with a car coming down the hill and a cyclist stopped round the corner. Hands up if you would consider the cyclist selfish for standing there and the motorist the innocent facing a "white knuckle braking scenario".

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    Another 'old' pic -

    Presume surface is still like that?

    Also presume most people here would like immaculate tarmac.

    That could make things worse because of (some) people going (too) fast.

    'We' don't like chicanes, but -

    Discuss.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. acsimpson
    Member

    I don't know if that particular patch has been resurfaced. I certainly don't remember it being that bad but perhaps it's a contrast thing.

    The worst stretch is at the back of the brig as you are still descending. Interestingly it's not visible on street view. I wonder if Chuck had it removed.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. minus six
    Member

    I've never found that bit to be a problem

    Timing is everything here. If you're in early and its not icy then there's generally no issue at all, but anytime after 9am, and there's oncoming dogs off the leash at the bit where you are forced wide due to Chuck's car, then it is a problem.

    If you really don't think this is a problem, then what areas of the route would you describe as a problem? Or is it all just hunky dory?

    Queensferry Road is a better bet if you're wanting to go flat out.

    A proper direct cycleway from Cramond Brig down to Quality Street and beyond, is what is required here.

    There is plenty room. As I've said before, the day Edinburgh Council consider that, is the day I take them seriously on cycling as transport.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. acsimpson
    Member

    A proper direct cycleway from Cramond Brig down to Quality Street and beyond, is what is required here.

    That would certainly be awesome. Although if I've been running late enough to turn right at Barnton Junction and take the Queensferry road option I've found it so congested in the morning then my lungs clog up with Diesel smoke and I end up being slower all the way to the bridge because of it.

    I'm also not sure how they would find space on the A90 Cramond Bridge for a proper cycle/pedestrian path either side.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. PS
    Member

    A proper direct cycleway from Cramond Brig down to Quality Street and beyond, is what is required here.

    Totally. Running all the way to Leith and to the city centre.

    The issue here is akin to those faced on the canal towpath - cycling routes are marginal and put on meandering "quiet routes" rather than direct transport arteries, which just leads to conflict with peds, dogs, ponies, etc.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. DaveC
    Member

    PS is right, I believe those who build these things think of gentle rolling family rides of no more then 5 miles when they think of cycling, instead of commuters, who like any other commuter wants to get to work and home in the shortest route and time.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Instography
    Member

    * If you really don't think this is a problem, then what areas of the route would you describe as a problem? Or is it all just hunky dory?

    Depends what you mean by a problem. I don't have problems of getting into disputes or crashes or white knuckle braking on any of the route (or actually on any of my cycling) because I'm cautious enough and a keen avoider of fall-related pain to take it easy when it's snowy or icy or busy.

    Of course the route could be better but this is the route as it is now. I don't have a problem of almost crashing into things that I can't see around a corner because if I can't see round a corner I slow down and take it as wide as possible. I don't generally have problems with children or dogs either because I tend to approach them slowly and as far from them as I can.

    Maybe it's just me but I don't want to get to work or home again by the shortest route and in the shortest time. If that was a priority I'd drive. I want to get to work in one piece and in a good mood.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. gembo
    Member

    Would chuck Norris still moan if you get off at top of hill and push down and over the bridge then get back on? I once came to a complete standstill for a woman on the towpath. She declined to move and I can only conclude she wished me to get off and push around her?

    Posted 10 years ago #

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